What do you think 4th wave feminism is?

[Neurotrash]

I will probably regret asking...!

However I've just seen a fb acquaintance who I know is extremely upset about rape culture, sexism, pro me too etc but unlikely to be aware of more of the rad fem stuff going on, toasting 4th wave feminism after being involved in a local arts celebration of the suffragettes. Wearing a fabulous purple and green scarf that I'm v jealous of!

But I'm now a bit confused as I am beginning to think there are a few different perspectives. Could it be solely internet/ technology based? This is certainly a big factor in the spread of recent feminist theory, except it's helped all 'types' of feminism.

Thoughts?

I'm not able to reply and discuss a huge amount but I will be reading. Aka neurotrashwarrior.

Clearly Wikipedia trying to set out a particular agenda.

The 'time line' then includes public sexual assault cases and metoo indicating a social media / news / protest furore being a big part of it.

Might look up the article mentioned.

Oh ok, look at the edits, currently going on. Bit of a battle over what it is. Last edit by 'niceguyedc'...

Fucking wiki is as bad a fucking YouTube.

Looks like this was a previous one:

Fourth-wave feminism''' is the resurgence of interest in feminismm* that began around 2012 and is associated with the use of mediaa. According to feminist scholar Chamberlainn, the focus of the fourth wave is justice for women, particularly opposition to harassmentt* and against womenn*. Its essence, she writes, is "incredulity that certain attitudes can still exist".{{sfn|Chamberlain|2017|p=115}}

Do you know what pisses me off?

I teach children with autism. The number of children I've taught who 'discover' wiki and YouTube to help them understand the world is staggering. Both need a health warning.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-wave_feminism

Previous page

What we're basically involved in here is a battle to decide whether the next wave of feminism is a women's liberation movement or whether it's to be redefined as a generic identitarian movement with no class analysis and therefore no disruptive potential.

It heavily focuses on intersectionality, pushing for greater empowerment of traditionally marginalized groups in society, including women and girls.

It's not feminism unless the focus is on women and girls.

It's laudable to help marginalised groups, but if it doesn't prioritise women's interests it's not feminism, it's plain old socialism.

Hopefully Truth and biology will out in the end.

Current wiki page is clap trap.

Isn't Natacha Kennedy the ring-leader of a Wiki-falsification of feminism squad who organise on Facebook?

It's deliberate.

Recently I tried to comment on the chat of a Wiki page that was heavily infested by TRAs. My chat comment was deleted. I can understand them rolling back changes to the page itself but to the chat???

The TRA movement is all about controlling what people say, because once the truth gets out, their ideology shatters.

Wikipedia is part of whatever wave we are going through now. Same as Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, YouTube, Wordpress, etc. Tech giants get to define the terms of debate. At some point maybe we have to go back to the printed word.

I think that earlier wiki page is probably right in that a mix of social media and outrage over a number of particular sexual assaults and realisations about misogyny being alive and inherent in society has kick started a resurgence of interest in feminism. Certainly I became interested in and a radical feminist in 2012/13 due to baby #1, mumsnet and a particular number of realisations. I believe I've watched this particular person becoming outraged and looking around for feminist groups/ marches they can join.

It potentially also may come to include the way social media, visual media, YouTube et al continue to cause damage and are a new threat to women and girls. (Or has been outlined in the referenced books.)

*Isn't Natacha Kennedy the ring-leader of a Wiki-falsification of feminism squad who organise on Facebook?

It's deliberate*

So there we go.

I agree, back to the printed word.

The TRA movement is all about controlling what people say, because once the truth gets out, their ideology shatters.

Thank fuck for mn then.

"3) Opposes locking up men who are violent towards women ('anti-carceral feminism').

4. Maintains that lesbians who aren't attracted to male-bodied people are bigots."

TBF I don't think even the wokest of woke young female feminists are really into these parts >> this comes from people who ID as women and also from MRAs who essentially are controlling conversation (thought) on a lot of "feminist" social media and all the female socialised poeple are too kind/polite to do anything. Also seeing what happens to those that do (immediately removed / accused of all sorts of crimes > for saying things like "periods affect girls and women mainly" and so on).

A LOT of feminist sites on eg facebook have been taken over by and are now run by penis people > whetehr identifying as men or women or something else.

So many men cannot STAND women having stuff that they arent allowed to / supposed to be involved in.

Also of course when women get together they start saying shit like rape is bad and yes that includes if the woman is asleep / drunk / has the audactity to say no etc and so on

Start talking about icky things like menstruation abortion pregnancy menopause

You know all that shit needs to be stopped asap and pdq as it's not the sort of thing men like to hear about

All the left-wing "If your feminism isn't Intersectional - it isn't feminism" gang are just doing the heavy lifte work for Bannon.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3383823-who-is-the-driving-force-behind-the-trans-agenda?pg=4

I don't know, NothingOnTellyAgain. I keep seeing people on Twitter who identify as 'cis lesbians' who fully support the TRA agenda. These for instance:

twitter.com/RheaButcher

twitter.com/Henriettaspoon

twitter.com/BellaRizinti

I don't get it. Would these women seriously consider a full relationship with someone who was physically male?

Very true.

insert bewilderness's rules here.

'4th wave feminism' is going to be an IT playground online, controlled by the mra and tra for a wee while.

They dont' say that violent rapists should not be in prison if they were trans though, surely?

And I don't think that they would approve of coerced sex either (rape) - they are getting the woke cookies.
The TRAs who push this absolutely believe that women should shut up and open their legs. ie same as MRAs.

I'll look at the tweets I hope I'm wrong!

I mean the majoritity of women / girls caught up in libfem though.

You can see them on facebook sites politely trying to phrase questions that are feminist in ways not to get kicked out, and sounding very confused.

I think a lot of the 4th Wave engineered malarkey relies on the idea of TWAW. So when you read the screen shots neurotrash took of the Wikipedia description, the reader is supposed to assume that "justice for women" includes those with dangling members. So 'me too', 'times up', etc, etc are meant to be read as both 'male' and female 'women' together fighting against male violence.

That's why we need to be brainwashed with the aversion therapy mantra first (say it, believe it, otherwise you will be shamed, marked, ostracised to wander unemployed and homeless for the rest of your days).

It's scuppers their plan somewhat if we don't picture dongs when we read the word 'woman'. We must be compelled to utter TWAW.

Has anyone read the books cited? The 2017 one especially?

To be honest, i've never heard of Prudence Chamberlain, but looking inside the cover of her book on Amazon it is endorsed by someone else I have never heard of - Elizabeth Evans who is a senior politics lecturer at Goldsmiths, where dear ol two headed janus of woke Mark Helen/Natacha Kennedy co-authors papers whilst orchestrating Wikipedia falsification and the witch hunting of female academics in a private antifeminist Facebook group.