Letter in the Times - Plea To The Trans Lobby from group of transsexuals

[PimmsnLemonade]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/times-letters-reasons-for-private-schools-oxbridge-success-sqjb6kkgt

The things you say on these matters , Miranda, may curry favour in the eyes of some on such as this thread, they cut no ice with transsexual people ,or with government.

And, as we are all very clear now, those are the only significant participants in this discussion.

The things you say on these matters , Miranda, may curry favour in the eyes of some on such as this thread, they cut no ice with transsexual people ,or with government

And, as we are all very clear now, those are the only significant participants in this discussion

Bit odd therefore to choose to try to control things here.
(well its not of course, but better that actual priorities are made clear rather than assumed ones)

Bubonic....
I do not tell anyone to shut up.I "silence no women" as the cliché has it. I say that it always has been ,and always will be, impossible to get transsexual women ( and some who are not TS, ) out of the ladies loos. This is a fact. Simply, a cast iron fact. It is impossible to police, even if it were lawful to try to do so.

At the risk of being unimaginative and repeating myself, your position is very clear Kay and also your motivations.

Because it is not going to happen is it? I am not going to go back to using the gents

You are telling us that your desire to be in women's spaces overrides women's consent or otherwise to have you there. How is this different from the position of the transgender activists you condemn?

How is this different from the position of the transgender activists you condemn?

Style as rather than substance?

apologies for the errant 'as'

I do not tell anyone to shut up.I "silence no women" as the cliché has it. I say that it always has been ,and always will be, impossible to get transsexual women ( and some who are not TS, ) out of the ladies loos. This is a fact. Simply, a cast iron fact. It is impossible to police, even if it were lawful to try to do so.

You’re demonstration zero respect or empathy for women.

KayM2: so you are saying that despite what women tell you about not wanting men in women's single-sex spaces - you are still going to disregard women's voices. You are still going to force your way into women's single-sex spaces. Despite lots of women saying No to you.

As I said, way to go.

Like you saying " liken up, fellah"? That is a joke?

How witty!
Though as jokes are not part of your usual manner, I can't help thinking that saying it was " a joke" has more to do with avoiding MNHQ censure than a sense of humour.

Anyway, Miranda old chap ( and apparently that is not an insult to you) I have an aim here. I'll not be around long. , as I have pretty much accepted the advice of my ex wife , my sister and my daughter to get out of this area of activity as it means that I am dealing with very odd people, and I'm quite odd enough anyway.

But before I " go", and leave all this behind, me, I have vowed that I will encourage everyone I know to make it clear to those feminist people who see your stance as " the acceptable face of transgenderism " that it isn't, and cannot be, anything other than a very fringe aspect of the whole , bigger picture.

I was happy to sign the letter, because I do believe that the things done to Prof Freedman ( and others ) are bloody appalling, and I would hope to see prosecutions.

But the stance you take ,which ( I hope I have got this near enough right) says that we are feminine males, and should be living as males, is unworkable. And it involves a sort of mental gymnastics to square circles ,that is incompatible with what is known. It just won't work.

It has never worked. and it cannot work. You are just offering false hopes to a few decent and guilt ridden trans people and a larger but still electorally insignificant group of determined feminists.

Which makes less time and energy available for more crucial fights that CAN be won .

I am not going to go back to using the gents

I loved an anecdote by one of letter's signatories, Fionne Olander, about emerging from a cubicle in the gents and being faced with a bloke at the urinals.

He looked confused and asked her whether he was in the Guy's toilets.
She replied: "Yes. I'm a guy"
He said: "Well you're a very pretty guy"
She dried her hands, said 'thank you' and walked out, head high.

That's my kind of transwoman and she gets a from me.

So does that bloke at the urinals

Though as jokes are not part of your usual manner

Now you really have gone way too far.

KayM2, your reaction is so typically male flouncing, it makes me laugh!

Whatever your personal identity: if you are male-bodied (regardless of silicone breasts, fantasy in your head etc) then you are a man.

Women do not want men in women's single-sex facilities and services. Sorry if that is a blow to your ego, but that is reality.

But before I " go", and leave all this behind, me, I have vowed that I will encourage everyone I know to make it clear to those feminist people who see your stance as " the acceptable face of transgenderism " that it isn't, and cannot be, anything other than a very fringe aspect of the whole , bigger picture

Kay
Feminist people?
really?

Women, adult human females.

wow!

The short answer is that I will never come close to being what society would expect of someone being biologically male.
Society says that the interests I have, the way I act and apparently the way I think would be expected of someone who was biologically female.

Gender stereotyping is the biggest problem we face.

What are women's interests, and how do women act and think? You know that's stereotyping, don't you?

You think women and girls want and need segregation because of our interest and the way we think?

What are women's interests, and how do women act and think? You know that's stereotyping, don't you?

You think women and girls want and need segregation because of our interest and the way we think?

Boom!

Society says that the interests I have, the way I act and apparently the way I think would be expected of someone who was biologically female

Oh good lord

What have we done to people? That people believe a woman is a woman because of their ' interests' . I am angry but I am sad that as a society this is what we have done.

What have we done to people? That people believe a woman is a woman because of their ' interests' . I am angry but I am sad that as a society this is what we have done.

Some people may believe this.
some people may believe 'there is a way of thinking' expected of only a woman's brain.

Sexism still exists.
So too homophobia.
Some people internalise these more than others.

However this video makes clear what a woman is:

ht Posie Parker

I note with interest the number of times Kay said “I am entitled” while explaining that Kay doesn’t give a hoot what women think of male encroachment on female spaces.

Telling.

Good work Miranda, as always.

I note with interest the number of times Kay said “I am entitled” while explaining that Kay doesn’t give a hoot what women think of male encroachment on female spaces.

Imagine deciding on your own to enter a prison cell, sinking back into a bunk, and saying to the other inmates, “Ah, this is the life.” Imagine then turning to politicians and saying, “Hey, let me represent prisoners to you. Really, I know quite a bit about prison life and actually, some parts of it great, Love the uniforms!”

And knowing you could leave the prison anytime you wanted to.

Oh so very telling.