"A quarter of uk adults think that marital sex without consent is not rape."

[Tackytriceratops]

Article.

Fucking hell.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/06/quarter-of-adults-think-marital-sex-without-consent-is-not-uk-survey-finds?CMP=fb_gu

yep, heard it on radio four yesterday, shocking.

Have we all been transported back in fucking time without realising it?

The only thing out of that shit show that gives me hope is that younger people are less likely to buy in to rape myths than their older counterparts, although whether that is because attitudes are really changing or because as we age we become more likely to believe rape myths is unclear. Hopefully Jessica Eaton's work on victim blaming and how we can stop it will be useful.

melanippe

Im really not sure thats the case

I hop it is

But I remember having a massive barny with some of my family regarding a girl going into a bedroom with a boy at a party and 'asking for it'

Although ds1 obviously didnt agree, he said thats what they were saying at school and other similar stuff

I obviously hope it is

Good god!!

And flirting!!!!

Not ds1, the article

That article is shocking.
What are the CPS going to do to make sure juries understand what rape actually is?

That is terrifying to read. No wonder a man was recently acquitted on the basis the victim was wearing a lacy thong if that what people believe. I despair.

I think if we stick with the jury system, there's going to have to be a very detailed briefing on consent on swearing in.

And if the defence could refrain from talking about underwear or how drunk =asking for it or how difficult it is for men to be rejected and deal with their hurted feelings that'd be awfully nice too.

Fucksake.

Not surprised. Not one tiny bit.

I think there needs to be some sort of massive public education campaign on consent and rape.

I honestly think that we should be moving away from adversarial justice in rape trials because of the over reliance on rape myths by the defence and in juries. It's not getting better.

The End Violence Against Women YouGov Survey and data tables are here (but I may be over-interpreting 'Long term partner" as a proxy for the questions about marriage) and they use "gender" rather than "sex" as demographic categories:

www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/major-new-survey-many-still-unclear-what-rape-is/

www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Data-tables-for-Attitudes-to-Sexual-Consent-research-report.pdf pdf

There was, of course, a sex/gender disparity in that question and the ones about the long-term partner.

I can understand how the answers in the long term partner question came about.

I can understand in that situation the respondents may think there is a grey area between nagging on at a woman to make her give in and legitimate efforts to get a partner interested. Respondents of both sexes may well have had experience of this.

But sex when someone is drunk/asleep/changes her mind halfway through / removing a condom? How did any of them rationalise that?

I can understand how the answers in the long term partner question came about.

Agreed - there is a legal difference (belated as it was in parts of the UK in re: the introduction of legislation relating to the concept of marital rape). Similarly - there's a difference in re: introduction of legislation about consent from drunk/unconscious women.

I'm still puzzling through bits of the data.

It make me think Greer is right, but I haven't read into what she said in too much detail. A summary I read here and a basic interview she did, did made sense to me as I think this article highlights a big part of the issue around rape.

If people all over the country were inadvertently committing any other serious crime in large numbers because they were literally unaware it was against the law, I wonder what the government response would be?

Ah, so we have been visited by one of the people who doesn't understand what rape is. I suppose that was inevitable.

Oh dear @whodathunkit even more scary if you do work in a related field

And for the sake of anyone distressed reading this - orgasm does not mean she consented.

Considering it was only (inexplicably) made illegal in 1991 it's no wonder some are confused.

Oh stop it. She wasn't hysterical, she was justifiably upset. You are the problem, your attitude is exactly what the issue is. Being asleep means you cannot consent to anything. Non-rapey partners will know that and check that you are awake before touching intimately.

Anyone that pretends it's impossible to have intimate relations with their partner due to consent, is lying. It's pathetic that anyone would suggest it tbh.

I honestly think that we should be moving away from adversarial justice in rape trials because of the over reliance on rape myths by the defence and in juries. It's not getting better.
Totally agree.

Now, to me, being in a sexual relationship with another person means some behaviour doesn't require consent. For example, touching the other person in an intimate way. Thats THE whole point of being in a relationship, otherwise it would just a platonic friendship

rapey

For the benefit of lurkers....consent doesn't have to be verbal. Enthusiastic participation is absolutely consent.
If your partner is withdrawn or doesn't seem enthusiastic maybe check before penetrating to avoid being reckless and unintentionally raping them.

If they are asleep leave them the fuck alone or at least wake them up and check they want to be touched.