"A quarter of uk adults think that marital sex without consent is not rape."

[Tackytriceratops]

Article.

Fucking hell.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/06/quarter-of-adults-think-marital-sex-without-consent-is-not-uk-survey-finds?CMP=fb_gu

The 1967 BBC adaptation of The Forsyte Saga shocked the country with the marital rape scene between Soames and Irené.

It wasn't shocking enough, apparently, to prevent Gone With the Wind and its far worse marital rape scene being trotted out on the rep circuit for years and years. I saw Gone With the Wind at a packed Edinburgh Filmhouse (about as wokey and PC and right - on a place as one could hope to find) in the early 2000s.

This is what a woman looks like the morning after marital rape acording to Gone With the Wind. The film is faithful to what Margaret Mitchell wrote in the book.In reality Margaret Mitchell woke up battered and beaten with 2 black eyes after her own experience of marital rape.

"A family friend is in her 90s. Her husband beat her and coerced sex on their wedding night. She's never once thought otherwise than she was raped, irrespective of the law's perspective for much of her life."

She's absolutely right of course and I'm appalled and saddened that happened to her. Sadly there are some of her generation and even younger that STILL wouldn't necessarily agree that was rape. They're arseholes but they exist.

"And when we talk about people being socialised ... we should always ask the question: By whom were they socialised to be so, and why would that have changed now?" Definitely. Understanding leads to the change we need.

"I am not so sure things got better." In some ways yes in others no different excuses now. Abusers and their apologists blame easy access to hard core porn, sexualised society etc yet that wasn't the case before and these perverts still existed.

"Being married does not mean you can no longer be raped by your husband! Absolutely shocking anyone could think otherwise." But until (I think) 1991 it was legally true as well as societally. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

Nice clear statement:

Mary Crilly. Irish Feminist activist. Set up Cork Rape Crisis Centre (Cork Sexual Violence Centre). Campaigns tirelessly to reform Irish Law; improve resources; change attitudes. “Consent is not grey. There is consensual sex & there is sexual assault. There is nothing in between”

twitter.com/Womans_Place_UK/status/1071012447698513921

I reported my exH for rape, sexual assault, emotional abuse, physical abuse and ongoing coercive control. Did a video interview and the detective told me they'd be speaking to witnesses, speaking to his work place (where he has form) and speaking to him. I spent weeks afraid of what he'd do when they spoke to him. My witnesses spent weeks anxiously waiting for the detective to call them to take statements. After several weeks I got a call to say they didn't think any of it met the criteria for a crime. Despite the fact he was the one who told me he'd sexually assaulted me in my sleep on more than one occasion. I'm talking 12 years of abuse. So this is no surprise to me at all. I'm deeply saddened by it, but it doesn't surprise me.

Seems in France if you're married then by law you must have sex with your partner

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8741895/Frenchman-ordered-to-pay-wife-damages-for-lack-of-sex.html

“Lie back and think of England” springs to mind...

Seems in France if you're married then by law you must have sex with your partner

That isn't what it is saying. There is an assumption a marriage will involve sex, for no other reason that is how babies are made. If one partner refuses, having given no indication beforehand, that is likely to be considered unreasonable behaviour for purposes of a divorce or a legal or canonical annulment. The same will apply in most, if not all, jurisdictions.

France has the similar rules on marital rape as other countries. A spouse can't be forced to have sex - that is still rape- but if they choose not to, there is a possibility the other spouse will end the marriage.

So far as her claim, generally one has a duty to mitigate loss. She could have divorced him (or asked for a religious annulment if she doesn't believe in divorce) long before 21 years.

Jessica Eaton's dedication page for her PhD thesis is worth a look:

To all the women and girls wrestling with the feeling that they were in some way to blame for what someone else did to them
...
We all deserve a world in which rape and abuse of women and girls does not happen. But until then, the least we can do is stop blaming them and offer our unconditional support.

twitter.com/Jessicae13Eaton/status/1070990987374284805

It seems to me there is something seriously wrong with saying that if women (or men) have an arrangement with their spouse that makes them both happy, even wen they don't have to ask for consent every time and are generally expected to speak up if they aren't keen, those women must just be unaware of their oppression and that they are being abused.

And then the implication that the men in these situations should be subject to legal prosecution, preferably by those who aren't having sex themselves?
I think most people would actually have a problem with that, and if younger people feel differently it may well be in part because they haven't had any serious long term relationships yet.
If the law is calling that rape, a situation where both people actually want sex and are happy to have it, that's a problem. Is rape really about ticking some box called "this is how we define performing consent"? Can you actually separate "consent" from people who want to have sex together? That seems to be taking about the most intimate of human activity and constraining it to business terms. (Which makes me wonder if its some sort of outgrowth of capitalism or neoliberalism.)
This comfortable element of long term relationships is one of the things many people like about them. The sense that they can get beyond that need to conduct their relationship as a sort of contract.
None of that means that therefore sex where one person does not want it is ok, or even legal. THat's a major straw man.