Shon Faye v Ed Sheeran

[FordPrefect42]

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone here has read Shon Faye’s recent Twitter post?

Basically within this post, which I will quote below, Faye is criticising Ed Sheeran for wearing casual clothing on stage whilst performing with Beyoncé who is wearing a rather unconventional dress:

“Ed Sheeran is a 27 year old man the fact we’ve enabled him to feel it’s ok to dress like this at all, let alone next to Beyoncé really boils my piss”

Please tell me I am not being unreasonable when I say that I think that this is a complete overreaction? I think people should be able to wear whatever they wish... also, I know this doesn’t have much to do with Feminism but Shon Faye is someone who is frequently discussed here and I can’t quite believe so many of my friends are in agreement with them on this statement (and also support them in general!)

I’m also inclined to believe this is their way of projecting their gender-related issues around clothing onto a man (which this individual still possesses the biological characteristics of...) but I may be leaping to conclusions!

So yeah - what does everyone think of this statement? I simply think this is their newest way of trying to get a few hundred likes and RTs by saying something controversial, personally.

P.S. I have used gender neutral pronouns to describe Shon Faye - please let me know if this goes against guidelines, I have tried to be as respectful as possible whilst acknowledging biological reality, if you understand what I mean. Thank you, and apologies in advance if this is unacceptable.

Strange! I got a message saying “Access denied” just before posting that. Does anybody know why this was the case? Thanks.

Also I appreciate there was a grammatical error within the quote. The quote is verbatim, and I decided against correcting the error.

Ed Sheeran ... was that the guy who made the soundtrack for the Hobbit movie? Name rings a bell.

I never hesitate to criticise men, but it is not Mr. Sheeran's fault that Beyonce dresses much more fancily than the average person wants to.

He's not required to try and match her dress.

He's an artist, it is not like he wore jeans and t-shirt to a workplace that requires women to do make-up and heels.

Pretty sure Beyonce could have worn jeans and t-shirt, too, and gotten away with it. Being so famous.

@HestiaParthenos yeah I think so, I See Fire was the song he recorded for the film.

I completely agree with you by the way!

I have seen it trending on Twitter and I think I don't really agree with the argument when it's applied to musicians. Bey's look is very dramatic and glamorous so it's not a surprise she dressed like that for the performance but like likewise, Ed's "look" is all jeans, t-shirt and Converse. They are both performers with a certain very specific style. Would the argument still be made if Bey was performing with, say, Marilyn Manson? Slipknot? I doubt it. I think the contrast is so striking because E.S's visual aesthetic is so contrasting to Beyonce's. I don't think it's insulting to her or anything. They are both just doing their brand on the stage and this includes, for both of them, dressing in a certain way.

I think that there is however validity in a similar argument which was made at a film premier, where the female lead was dressed very formally and the male lead (I think it was Adam Sandler) was wearing cargo shorts or something.

Jesus my reply was so long! Hope it makes sense

Finally in reference to the tweet itself, why shouldn't a 27 yr old man wear what he likes? I think it's a good thing he's been 'enabled' in this way!

I think that there is however validity in a similar argument which was made at a film premier, where the female lead was dressed very formally and the male lead (I think it was Adam Sandler) was wearing cargo shorts or something

True, but I'd only point at the male to say "look HE gets to wear comfortable clothes, why doesn't SHE get to do that, too?"

Making men wear uncomfortable clothes, too, isn't the solution. (I am all for demanding that they dress the same way women are required, but only in the hopes that they'll refuse and demand that all clothes rules get gotten rid of)

Why are we supposed to accept trans persons however they present but Shon feels they can criticize the clothes of an incredibly successful male musician? It just reads as immature jealously to me.

Actually I really can’t be doing with anyone who is extremely immature and has to use abuse in any form to get attention.

Besides Shon deciding to police appropriate dress, I'd like to note, Beyonce was dressed like a layer cake.

To each his/her own, but no one should take fashion tips from pop stars.

Besides Shon deciding to police appropriate dress, I'd like to note, Beyonce was dressed like a layer cake.

Should Sheeran perhaps have dressed like a cup of coffee to go with the cake?

@Reedskate yeah it makes sense! Absolutely; they both have distinct styles, not just with regards to the way they dress either.

I’m content to see that everyone else here agrees with me on this one! A few friends of mine liked and retweeted the post and I couldn’t understand why.

I completely agree Hestia. I have to admit I hadn't really thought of it thatbway round if you see what I mean. Clothes should be comfy for everyone

Hestia I have no doubt Shon wishes

Seriously, If you've ever seen say a standard long hair male rock star walk by in real life, you'd understand that most of the fashion - clothing, make up, hair - musicians adopt is solely for a specific dramatic effect on stage. It is in no way realistic.

Sheeran, that's a little more real.

Ed looks fabulous, he is so sexy.

I absolutely think women should be able to wear whatever they like to perform in.

I mean he looks sexy even in a t-shirt and jeans so that's good for him.

Beyoncé's dress was pretty amazing!

So yeah - what does everyone think of this statement? I simply think this is their newest way of trying to get a few hundred likes and RTs by saying something controversial

The grammar is atrocious. The meaning is unclear. Who is the "we" who have "enabled" this? What have "we" "enabled" ? A grown man wearing what he wants?

Is it a very poorly worded reference to a disparity about what female performers and male performers wear ? And even if it is, some performers dress up, some don't.

What is the big deal about Beyoncé anyway? Why I am supposed to care about her?

Finally, I loathe that expression Fate used. It's vulgar, stupid, crude and hackneyed.

True, but I'd only point at the male to say "look HE gets to wear comfortable clothes, why doesn't SHE get to do that, too?"

Oh fgs. I find Beyoncé's music dull as dishwater but nobody wears a dress as ridiculously OTT unless they actually enjoy wearing ridiculously OTT clothes.

I know it's terribly hard for some feminists to understand but there are women who have other criteria for picking clothes beyond "does it have a comfy, elasticated waist and can I put it in the washing machine?"

nobody wears a dress as ridiculously OTT unless they actually enjoy wearing ridiculously OTT clothes.

Not quite true when you add being on stage. Beyonce may or may not be in charge of staging her act. Word is she is, but I never trust word.

Her music is less than spectacular. The staging, including her clothing choices, is what keeps her following listening to her.

I have nothing against her, or anyone who just luvs her, and I find her a bit contrived, but kudos to her flair for dramatic (without letting on she knows it's drama). There's a reason it's called show biz, not show art.

She still looked like a layer cake, esp next to Sheeran.

not the sort of thing that normally comes to my attention

googled for images, and fuck me, that dress is incredible

it looks like fun to wear, I hope beyonce enjoyed it

i'm a bit upset on the part of men that clothing choices like that aren't really open to them

that's all I've got

The pink thing looks like the toilet roll doll that used to stand on my nana:s cistern back in the 70s.

Ed Sheeran's brand is that he's your regular ordinary everyday (multi-millionnaire) average bloke.

Beyonce's brand is that she's a super mega fabulous star who is never ordinary and we never see the real her (Sasha Fierce, very few interviews).

That is why they're wearing very different clothes on stage. I saw the argument on Twitter and did a massive eye-roll.

Hadley Freeman has written an article on this and argues the point well about what is considered ‘acceptably attractive’ in terms of effort made between men and women. I would agree with the point.

I don’t know what Shon Faye means by ‘enabled’ in this context; it doesn’t really seem to fit and seems more like a trendy buzzword crowbarred in. The trans movement is reinforcing these damaging gender stereotypes by positing that wearing a lot of make up, coiffed hair, high heels and elaborate clothes is actually what makes someone a woman anyway so Shon seems to be coming from the opposite side of this argument and it doesn’t hang together with what they’re saying in this tweet consistently. Surely, according to trans logic, Ed is dressed in this scruffy way because he’s a man and Beyoncé is irresistibly drawn to the pink ruffle dress because of her innate femininity...right? So what is Shon Faye’s problem with it anyway?

Hadley Freeman is talking about this in the Guardian, with a far more nuanced take!

What would have been more interesting is if Beyonce had worn jeans and a tee shirt and Ed Sheeran had worn a fancy dress. As it is, nuh.