Shon Faye v Ed Sheeran

[FordPrefect42]

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone here has read Shon Faye’s recent Twitter post?

Basically within this post, which I will quote below, Faye is criticising Ed Sheeran for wearing casual clothing on stage whilst performing with Beyoncé who is wearing a rather unconventional dress:

“Ed Sheeran is a 27 year old man the fact we’ve enabled him to feel it’s ok to dress like this at all, let alone next to Beyoncé really boils my piss”

Please tell me I am not being unreasonable when I say that I think that this is a complete overreaction? I think people should be able to wear whatever they wish... also, I know this doesn’t have much to do with Feminism but Shon Faye is someone who is frequently discussed here and I can’t quite believe so many of my friends are in agreement with them on this statement (and also support them in general!)

I’m also inclined to believe this is their way of projecting their gender-related issues around clothing onto a man (which this individual still possesses the biological characteristics of...) but I may be leaping to conclusions!

So yeah - what does everyone think of this statement? I simply think this is their newest way of trying to get a few hundred likes and RTs by saying something controversial, personally.

P.S. I have used gender neutral pronouns to describe Shon Faye - please let me know if this goes against guidelines, I have tried to be as respectful as possible whilst acknowledging biological reality, if you understand what I mean. Thank you, and apologies in advance if this is unacceptable.

This Jezebel article is considerably more coherent than Faye's tweet.

I'm not convinced by the "not showing respect to B" line but the "ES and other blokes turning up and not really being arsed to do things properly" line has legs.

jezebel.com/ed-sheeran-explains-why-he-wore-a-t-shirt-onstage-while-1830905123

Yeah, Shon loves the uber gender presentation. What's interesting is how upset Shon got over a long tradition of performers like Sheeran.

"Beyoncé’s shtick, meanwhile, is that she’s not regular. She’s an epitome, someone working to wow at every level. In part, this is pop’s comfort with artifice allowing for an inspirational superhuman fantasy of waking up flawless. In part, it’s a reaction to being underestimated for reasons of race and gender. Janet Mock’s quote, as heard on Blood Orange’s latest album, nicely nails the mentality: “People try to put us down by saying ‘She’s doing the most,’ or ‘He’s way too much.’ But, like, why would we want to do the least?”

"But not all viewers pick up on, or are persuaded by, Beyoncé’s assertion of power through visuals. And for them, there is Sheeran. He dresses the way he does not simply because he can. He’s making a point, and on some level it does have to do with the Beyoncés of the world. You can see it clearly in the backlash to the original criticism of his outfit, with fans defending Sheeran by calling Beyoncé fake and try-hard for how she dresses.

"In pop, image typically follows sound. The acoustic-guitar love song—Sheeran’s commodity—has a standard costume: jeans and tee. "

"[W]hen he stands next to her, the visual contrast plays to each of their respective constituencies’ attitudes about aesthetics and identity. The game he’s playing isn’t all that different from hers, and there’s a case to be made that her presentation is the one that’s more transparent about it."

www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/12/what-ed-sheeran-and-beyonces-clothing-clash-really-means/577438/

But go look up sea-slugs, the name isn't promising, but the dresses are amazing!

Ooh there needs to be an Attenborough programme about the sea slugs!

I am taking part in the annual sea slug census where I am tomorrow - so a bunch of us are going looking for sea hares, blue dragons and so on in the local rock pools at low tide.

Sea slugs are amazing, varied and gorgeous in their own right.

The blue dragons feed on blue bottles amongst other things, (siphonophorae /zooids) that are themselves amazing - not a jellyfish but a colony of 4 zooids living as one organism that people mistake for a jellyfish.

BBs are very common on Australian beaches when they washed in by storms or in the sea, when swimmers can get snagged by their long tentacles which give a nasty sting, that people react to in differing ways- some very seriously as the sting contains a cocktail of muscle toxins and neurotoxins that can be powerfully destructive to their prey.

The blue dragons store the stinging cells from the blue bottles whilst digesting them, and use them for their own defence against predators. We could learn something from them...

So.…. is Shon saying that secretly Beyoncé wanted to also wear jeans and T-shirt but society's expectations meant that she couldn't?

I'm not a Beyoncé fan particularly (too much style over substance for me, I don't watch videos so it's what the music sounds like rather than what the performer looks like) but I'm pretty sure that if Beyoncé wanted to wear what Ed wore she would have done.

So.…. is Shon saying that secretly Beyoncé wanted to also wear jeans and T-shirt but society's expectations meant that she couldn't?

Yeah. Which is curious considering that Shon even changed their 'gender' in order not to be forced into jeans and T-shirt and wear fancy dresses instead.

I do often Moab that I can’t “get away” with what dh does when we go to the same venue. Women always have to be one step up from men in formality/dress to fit in.
If men are jeans and tees the women are jeans and a nice top.
If men are jeans and a nice shirt women are generally in dresses/heels or very smart trousers.

But Ed and Beyoncé are hardly examples of “normal people”. He’d have looked daft in a tux.

If men are jeans and tees the women are jeans and a nice top.

Are you saying, if a woman were to wear a tee in such circumstances, the clothes police would arrest her?

I do think SF must have been drunk. Faye writes stuff I disagree with or think is wrong; occasionally even agree with (when it was Sean rather than Shon) but it is not incomprehensible like this.

He dresses the way he does not simply because he can. He’s making a point, and on some level it does have to do with the Beyoncés of the world

Not entirely convinced by this. I think he is simply doing it because he can and he can't be bothered having anything resembling stage gear.

So far as making a point- he's wearing the world's most ubiquitous (and dull) outfit. Are you suggesting the point he is making is " I'm so brilliant I don't need to dress up. My music says it all?"

Not much of a point is it? given 99% of blokes clutching an acoustic guitar, regardless of the quality of their music, dress like him.* I've seen loads of them (almost always as the support acts for considerably more talented woman)

*the exception which instantly comes to mind is the always elegantly suited Lyle Lovett (who is a much better songwriter than ES)

And Leonard Cohen - another man who was capable of writing songs while dressing well.

Oh indeed. I'm embarrassed not to have thought of Leonard Cohen.

Mumford and Sons, Coldplay, Ed Sheeran, U2 - I don't think any of them dress up to go on stage. (Although to be fair Bono used to wear those glasses - but didn't he always wear them?).

The uniform for a British MOR band that has broken the US is 'scruff'.

I imagine Ed Sheehan wears a top hat and tails when he is alone in his house.

Mumford and Sons don't they have a whole cod aged tweeds, waistcoats and fob watches thing to go with the cod folky music?

I think Bono might have had leather trousers at one point.

LassWiADelicateAir I'm more convinced by

He dresses the way he does not simply because he can. He’s making a point, and on some level it does have to do with the Beyoncés of the world

I'm more convinced by that than anything else written about it.

Beyonce is a stage creature. So is Sheeran. They have parts to play, and gender has a whole lot to do with it.

There is a long tradition of woman performing woman on the stage. Nothing pisses off a man more than a natal woman who is not following the gender norm, and female performers need to sell records and tickets. Race plays into it, makes it even harder for black women, but it's driven by sex.

It's a mommy issue. It's an intercourse issue. It's how dare she be a role model to lead our daughters astray social issue.

Ever wonder why Michfest was picked as the first target? Michfest was a remnant of a time when female performers and their female audiences said no in larger numbers than they do now.

Male performers also wear costumes. They wear tuxes when they sing a certain type of music for the rich, well established people in the audience.

They wear jeans and tee shirts when they sing folk rock because they're required to identify with the commonfolk. They also have a "stick it the man" leftover vibe from the days of Woody Guthrie, Pete Singer and Bob Dylan (I'm sure there's a British singer or two in there as well, but the US music industry has been influential).

It pisses some men off, especially record executives, but a woman would enrage men, rich, poor, right, left, gay, straight and, as Shon has proved, trans off.

The part of Sheeran's costume is that has to do with Beyonce's dress is that the jean suit is a piss off statement and uber glamour is a bow to the tradition of women performing woman on stage and not pissing men off, including record executives.

Still not convinced. Doesn't he just dress on stage exactly as he does in real life?

Having said that I'm not terribly au fait with the life and oeuvre of Ed Sheeran- his music is as dull, uninspired and unoriginal as his dress sense.

Yes, I know you're a Beyhiver.

BUT the music industry is what it is regardless of how you refuse to see it.

Yes, I know you're a Beyhiver

Me? Not in the slightest. I'm almost insulted at the idea.

I don't know what you think I'm refusing to see beyond the fact Ed Sheeran is a scruffy dresser. There is so much interesting contemporary music around other than this
pair.

BUT the music industry is what it is regardless of how you refuse to see it

I rather feel some posters have a very limited idea of what is actually available in the contemporary, non- classical music scene. Tbere are many, many far more interesting artists around beyond this pair of corporate puppets.

I was in London on Monday to hear this performer. She might never make the squillions they but she's got a depth and genuiness they lack.

Ok, so you're not a Beyhiver. I'm not a Sheeran fan.

The world would be a better place if Bey could go on stage and do the old jeans and tee shirt thing and get just on music, but she can't, even if she had the voice.

Sheeran, he does his thing. Demanding he play dress up would be fatal to his career, and would not be the least bitty bit an improvement in his music. (the audience expects it)

The question is why do you think it would be "if he put in an effort" to amuse you by wearing fancy shoes?

Having said that I'm not terribly au fait with the life and oeuvre of Ed Sheeran- his music is as dull, uninspired and unoriginal as his dress sense.

Am with Lass on this!

Ed Sheeran, the example of dullness that unites us all!

(Just not in the way he might have hoped.)

Yes

Hard for me to give a bloody fuck one way or another about Sheeran. I'm still puzzled by his cameo on Game of Thrones, and since that's the only time I saw him, it took me a week or so to figure out which one he was.

Beyonce, though, I know enough about her to know her music is also boring, and I've never been into music for the spectacle.

Both are memes, and the memes are hard wired into music performance until someone comes along who's talented enough to break them.

The world would be a better place if Bey could go on stage and do the old jeans and tee shirt thing and get just on music, but she can't, even if she had the voice

No actually it wouldn't. It would be a duller place. It would be a world populated by Ed Sheeran lookie likies. Some performers, male and female, put on OTT performances , some don't; both are fine.

The question is why do you think it would be "if he put in an effort" to amuse you by wearing fancy shoes?

Not quite sure what you are saying as I think there is a word missing but no, that isn't the question by a million miles.

He makes no effort to do stage clothes. At no point have I said he should. You are the one awarding him brownie points for keeping it real /socking it to the man by his lack of interest in dressing up. It wouldn't amuse me in the slightest if ES wore "fancy shoes" - the music would still be as dull.

My favourite male artist Mark Lanegan is every bit as scruffy as ES.

Whatever Shon Faye says, you can safely assume it's the opposite.