Shon Faye v Ed Sheeran

[FordPrefect42]

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone here has read Shon Faye’s recent Twitter post?

Basically within this post, which I will quote below, Faye is criticising Ed Sheeran for wearing casual clothing on stage whilst performing with Beyoncé who is wearing a rather unconventional dress:

“Ed Sheeran is a 27 year old man the fact we’ve enabled him to feel it’s ok to dress like this at all, let alone next to Beyoncé really boils my piss”

Please tell me I am not being unreasonable when I say that I think that this is a complete overreaction? I think people should be able to wear whatever they wish... also, I know this doesn’t have much to do with Feminism but Shon Faye is someone who is frequently discussed here and I can’t quite believe so many of my friends are in agreement with them on this statement (and also support them in general!)

I’m also inclined to believe this is their way of projecting their gender-related issues around clothing onto a man (which this individual still possesses the biological characteristics of...) but I may be leaping to conclusions!

So yeah - what does everyone think of this statement? I simply think this is their newest way of trying to get a few hundred likes and RTs by saying something controversial, personally.

P.S. I have used gender neutral pronouns to describe Shon Faye - please let me know if this goes against guidelines, I have tried to be as respectful as possible whilst acknowledging biological reality, if you understand what I mean. Thank you, and apologies in advance if this is unacceptable.

I suppose on one level it's an advancement for equality that Shon is attacking a bloke for a change.

OTOH I can't fathom the mentality of someone who's so angry that someone else is 'allowed to feel it's OK' to wear jeans and a t-shirt.

Can't get worked up about two fully grown adults wearing whatever they like. I dislike hyper sexualised clothing on men or women in public. But this doesn't seem too bad. It's hard to believe that Beyonce isn't in control of her look.

Shon's comment is horrible. Even children know that being mean about another person's appearance is unacceptable.

Everyone can choose what clothes they want to wear, what costumes they want to put on. Bit odd that Shon cares.

I assume Beyonce likes to dress up and Ed doesn't. Both fine.

I do sometimes wonder if we'd have been spared a lot of the current nonsense if it were more culturally acceptable for men to dress flamboyantly (as they often have in the past). I miss Prince.

People can wear what they like.

I don't give a shit about costumes tbh. It's like anything ekse. The fancier the clothes and stage props the worse the actual performance/singing.

If some ones any good you should be able to give them a chair and an instrument/backing track and that's all you need.

The rest is packaging

Oh fgs. I find Beyoncé's music dull as dishwater but nobody wears a dress as ridiculously OTT unless they actually enjoy wearing ridiculously OTT clothes

She has to because there's bugger all special about the over hyped woman who despite knowimg her husband cheated on her and singing leave him, be an indepentant woman, releasing "enpowering" albums, stays with said husband because of the brand, what a wonderful role model she is NOT!

sorry i really don't get the queen bey hype. She seems like a media hungry self publisist.

She looked awlful! Ed on the other hand looked like he always does. On a none biased note, if its acceptable for beyonce to wear what looks like human size copy of kim kardashians toilet roll holder dolly, then surely its also acceptable for ed to wear jeans and tee shirt.

DD and I watched a 90s compilation of indie bands on the tv a couple of months ago and it was notable how many of the bands were fronted by women, and how the women were fairly normally dressed. It's another example I think about how we have gone backwards in how women are expected to dress and behave.

Wasn't there similar commentary when the actress from hunger games was pictured in a roof top in a haute couture gown in freezing conditions when the men wore chinos or something? And she made a statement afterwards saying something along the lines of 'I chose to wear that dress and I loved every minute of it-who wouldn't want to wear an amazing gown like that given the chance?'

Total paraphrase from my shit memory.

Let me see if I've understood this: Shon Faye, who exerts their own right to break social convention by wearing whatever they like, is policing the clothes worn by a man?

That's about the sum of it, Vicky.

Shon can dress as they wish (and I think we'd all agree with Shon there). But apparently Ed Sheeran can't.

I think the issue is more about sexist expectations enforced by the patriarchy. Why aren't men pressured to look good for us? Why don't we demand they impress us and look 'hot' for the female gaze? More male objectification would be a positive thing. If calling out Ed Sheeran sparks this debate then it's a good thing.

More male objectification would be a positive thing.

I dunno, Kissed. I think that we should resist objectification altogether. Men and women. People are people, not objects. But I agree with your point about sexist expectations.

Why don't we demand they impress us and look 'hot' for the female gaze?

so women look 'hot' by wearing clothes that allow a clear view of their legs and / or cleavage I think?

I'm not sure if there is an analogous way for men to look 'hot'. If Mr Sheeran had been wearing short shorts I don't think it would have exactly made my ovaries go up in flames.

women aren't as fixated on what men's clothing reveals when deciding if they look sexy I think. Many women consider a formal suit to be sexy for example.

Although I did rather enjoy watching all the men in skirts in Gods of Egypt last night

I dunno, Kissed. I think that we should resist objectification altogether. Men and women. People are people, not objects. But I agree with your point about sexist expectations.

But with us objectifying men it's more a case of 'punching up.' It can also be seen as liberating for women. If one has ever been to a male strip show or Magic Mike or something like that, almost every woman comes out laughing and smiling, feeling good and emboldened. That's what I meant by a positive thing.

Now THERE’S a thread title I never thought I’d see...

There is no point in making a drama about artists dressing according to their own ‚brand‘ they embody.
You can make an argument about why ,sex sells‘ so well, when it comes to female stars, but the fact of the matter is that talented women are making careers without the glam and nudity (Brandi Carlyle being just one example). So that is Beyonce‘s own choice, presumably because it gives her an edge or maybe ‚cause she enjoys it. And men have done the same, just remember one Freddy Mercury - who with his fantastic voice could have gone bodiless for all I care.
Obviously, I have fretted over dress codes when freezing my ass off after some ball in january, while the guys have their suit or tuxedo. But even there I had a choice, and I am frankly not sure how much of the pressure comes from fellow women in this matter (same for weight, actually).

Prescribed dress codes, particularly at work, are the only point where these types of discussions make sense. I worked in the lab of a big Pharma company, for example, and men had to wear long trousers under the lab coats for safety reasons while we women were free to wear trousers or skirts of any length under the coat - doing the same work as the men. Now, how does that make any sense?

Shon is just trying to position Shonself with the glamorous (doll) Beyonce and away from the grungy (normie) Sheehan. And the only way Shon can position Shonself thusly is to complain if anybody doesn't dress within the confines of an aggressively gendered stereotypical prison.

Shon: do fuck off, dear.

despite knowimg her husband cheated on her and singing leave him, be an indepentant woman, releasing "enpowering" albums, stays with said husband because of the brand, what a wonderful role model she is NOT!

IMO there’s a good chance the ‘affair’ never happened and was cooked up in order to sell the ‘post-affair’ album to women who’ve been trained to accept bullshit from men and need this acceptance soundtracking.

Nice one, Bey.

There is a very powerful internet culture around women needing to worship Beyoncé, I imagine Shon wants to be part of the club that perceives her as the pinnacle of womanhood. It's so so shallow, Beyonce may have 'fabulous' dresses but at least Ed has some integrity. I don't know how she squares singing songs about empowerment while staying with that slimeball JayZ whose had her under his control since she was a teen.

ed sheeran is pretty much the only artists guaranteed to make me turn the radio off

i find his songs both shit and misogynist

When I was six years old I broke my leg...
I was younger then

you were younger when you were 6 years old? no shit Ed. Proper deep.

I think the issue is more about sexist expectations enforced by the patriarchy. Why aren't men pressured to look good for us? Why don't we demand they impress us and look 'hot' for the female gaze? More male objectification would be a positive thing. If calling out Ed Sheeran sparks this debate then it's a good thing*

Oh kissed male objectfication does happen, to the extent i've seen comments on a male pop stars wife's instagram that are literally why are you allowing him to wear a robe, you're so mean for showing us hes wearing not very much come on show us whats underneth, and even pics of them fully clothes, "ohh so hot" "lucky you i most definately wouldnt kick him out of bed" even comments like "when your done with him send him around to mine so i can have a go"

To another male popstars then fifteen your old son "i want to fuck your dad"

Theres quite a bit of presure on male popstars to look hot sexy.

Go ask pretty much any one direction fan why they like the band its cos jeez you would wouldnt you?! (No no no)

Its what the boyband indystry is built on selling sexual disire.

So no we dont need to xall out ed sharen in some "oh well theres presure on women ti look sexy that doesnt exsist for women double standards" because the objectification on men does already exist in that industry

I see a few tweets down Shon commenting that Shon has consciously muted trans and transphobia discussions on social media and feels better for it.

Also Shon: "All boys school so I couldn't do this... but now I am the pretty girls so "
in connection with a high-school popular girls type meme.

Seems like Shon feels Shon has graduated from trans status to just woman status. But not the kind of woman who listens to Woman's Hour...

Seems like Shon feels Shon has graduated from trans status to just woman status. But not the kind of woman who listens to Woman's Hour...

Exactly. As I said above, only reason for Shon's tweet is for Shon to position Shonself with Beyonce via the transformative medium of costume.