Shon Faye v Ed Sheeran

[FordPrefect42]

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone here has read Shon Faye’s recent Twitter post?

Basically within this post, which I will quote below, Faye is criticising Ed Sheeran for wearing casual clothing on stage whilst performing with Beyoncé who is wearing a rather unconventional dress:

“Ed Sheeran is a 27 year old man the fact we’ve enabled him to feel it’s ok to dress like this at all, let alone next to Beyoncé really boils my piss”

Please tell me I am not being unreasonable when I say that I think that this is a complete overreaction? I think people should be able to wear whatever they wish... also, I know this doesn’t have much to do with Feminism but Shon Faye is someone who is frequently discussed here and I can’t quite believe so many of my friends are in agreement with them on this statement (and also support them in general!)

I’m also inclined to believe this is their way of projecting their gender-related issues around clothing onto a man (which this individual still possesses the biological characteristics of...) but I may be leaping to conclusions!

So yeah - what does everyone think of this statement? I simply think this is their newest way of trying to get a few hundred likes and RTs by saying something controversial, personally.

P.S. I have used gender neutral pronouns to describe Shon Faye - please let me know if this goes against guidelines, I have tried to be as respectful as possible whilst acknowledging biological reality, if you understand what I mean. Thank you, and apologies in advance if this is unacceptable.

...and really none of this has anything to do with Beyonce or Ed Sheeran, everything is always about Shon and Shon's amazing self....

Had to look up who Shon Faye is- maybe Shon is a misandrist and can’t bear to see men wear men’s clothes as it’s simply too triggering. This is worrying as Shon seems to be a misogynist too. Oh dear 🤷🏼‍♂️

The psychology of this really is sad though. Like, OK, so, Shon at the boys school didn't feel able to dress up like a diva because Shon was always a pretty girl on the inside (no comment) and therefore Ed Sheeran, who as far as we know has no genderfeels whatsoever, should dress up like a (more manly?) diva, so that younger Shon via time machine/people who are at boys schools now will feel like it's OK to dress up like divas.

I find myself struggling to be so kind as to characterise it as sad! But y'know, what do you expect from a saggy-titted, blokey-dressing old bigot such as me?!

I mean don't get me wrong, I miss the days of more flamboyant male musicians as the norm and would love to see them return, and Sheeran bores me to death, but he dresses like lots of lots of men do.

Sheeran in Freddy Mercury's red 'eye' overall is something I could get behind, even though I'm not into his music. Freddy with his voice on the other hand could wear anything and I'd be there.

Surely the real question is where are the female singer-songwriters who wear jeans and t-shirts? Where's their music contracts and encouragement and appreciation? I suspect either glammed up by their record company or dropped like a stone because they didn't fit the image. There used to be far more. There's nothing wrong with Sheeran's clothes, he's not there for his clothes he's there for his music.

Surely the real question is where are the female singer-songwriters who wear jeans and t-shirts?

Well, it also depends on what music you choose to hear.

Sheeran was wearing his 'costume' just as Beyonce was.

'where are the female singer-songwriters who wear jeans and t-shirts? Where's their music contracts and encouragement and appreciation? I suspect either glammed up by their record company or dropped like a stone because they didn't fit the image. There used to be far more. '

Yes - most female singers in the 80 's/90's wore jeans and t-shirts.

Puts out controversial tweet.
OMG why is everyone being so mean? (expressing opposing opinion)
Tweets again.
Then again.
Gimme more attention.
I'm the victim here!!!

Sigrid wears jeans and T-shirts, my dd loves her.

The psychology of this really is sad though.

I agree AAK. It is sad. I feel sorry for boyhood Shon.

Adult Shon appears to hold women in contempt ('enjoy your erasure') whilst simultaneously claiming to be one. It's a shame that being a feminine man doesn't seem to have been a long-term option for Shon.

Surely the real question is where are the female singer-songwriters who wear jeans and t-shirts? Where's their music contracts and encouragement and appreciation?

There are plenty of female singer songwriters who don't dress up in a sexualised way (Some of them wear dresses , or in the case of Heloise Letissier, sharp masculine clothes. I can't stand this idea that a woman only deserves to treated seriously if she wears boring masculine clothes- although Sigrud does actually wear boring jeans and t- shirts). Here are just a few from my own music collection.

They might not be raking in millions but they are all making a living from music and getting critical acclaim.

Sigrud
Courtney Marie Andrews
Olivia Chaney
The Staves
The Unthanks
Courtney Barnett
Camera Obscura (Traceyanne Campbell)
Heloise Letissier (Christine and the Queens)
Laura Veirs
Anais Mitchell
Rhiannon Giddens
Applewood Road
Basia Bulat
First Aid Kit
Cat Power
Neko Case
Margo Price

Yes - most female singers in the 80 's/90's wore jeans and t-shirts

Who are you thinking of?

Christina and the Queens wear very gender neutral attire and I’m sure there are others who don’t go full “vomited femininity all over myself”, I just don’t know them cos I’m old and uncool. Equally you have the likes of ‘im from Years and Years who is partial to some guy liner and sparkly spandex.

It’s not as if artists have suddenly become completely restricted to only wearing gender stereotypes all of a sudden. And anyway if Queen Bey had a problem with prancing about in a Panto costume whilst some bloke strums along in a plaid shirt and jeans, I’m sure she could find herself another internationally recognized, best selling and incredible dull artist to warble along to who better echoed her sartorial choices... or rocked up in yoga pants and a sweatshirt, I’m sure the fans would have gone just as wild.

Gah, first world problems.

80s off the top of my head

Kate Bush
Alanis Morrisette
Natalie Merchant
Annie Lennox
Sinead O'connor
Stevie Nicks
Madonna
Cindi Lauper
Debbie Harry
Mariah Carey
Gwen Stefani
Maria McKee
Joan Armatrading

Apart from Joan Armatrading, you're way off the mark on "jeans and a t-shirt"

Bananarama we’re partial to jeans and a t-shirt. Tiffany had a big sweater and jeans... I can remember loads that didn’t “dress up”.

80's /90's - Alanis Morisette, Sinead O' Connor, Sheryl Crow, Bananarama, Elastica, Sleeper - even Madonna wore jeans and tshirt for some of her images.

Yes Tiffany. Young girl casually dressed, much easier (and cheaper) to emulate than say Madonna. Mismatched earrings, crucifix necklaces, crop tops, rubber bangles, et all. Although I did love both as a young teenager.

80's /90's - Alanis Morisette, Sinead O' Connor, Sheryl Crow, Bananarama, Elastica, Sleeper - even Madonna wore jeans and tshirt for some of her images

For some of their images and for many more they didn't. And either was fine. It is completely false to try to suggest that most female singers in the 80 's/90's spent their whole jeans and t-shirts.

It is also deeply insulting to the many talented and hard working contemporary female musicians to try to write them off as sexualised bimbos compared to the 80s/90's- or not even be aware they exist.

I don't love Shon but I'm not mad at this tweet. So many ways to spin it, from the humorous to the furious to the political. There is a big mismatch in their outfits, and part of me thinks Sheeran has let the side down somewhat.

I mean, it's Beyonce.

And of course there's lots to be said on the topic of mega stars appearing on stage wearing literally what they mooched around tescos in earlier. If Beyonce wants to continue ruling the world, mooch wear isn't an option for her.

Having said that, she's very carefully built her brand in a particular way, and enjoys huge success because of it. And almost certainly loves what she wears.

Meh.

I think this is about hatred of unisex clothes - ie the T-shirt and jeans combo. As gender is about performance of stereotypes, it is not possible for trans to pass as their preferred gender unless everyone plays the game. There have to be male and female acceptable identifiable clothing as there are no men or women. 'We' have enabled Ed to not perform gender through clothing. Shame on us

KeepOn I've heard that view expressed about makeup as well.

Ed Sheeran used to turn up to watch his girlfriend play hockey, doing his best to avoid attention.

Perhaps he is not a natural attention seeker? Perhaps Shon Fay does not understand this?

Perhaps he is not a natural attention seeker? Perhaps Shon Fay does not understand this?

I can see why they would have problems understanding this, yeah.

Well, I freely admit to barely knowing who Beyonce is, but then in a typical Mumsnet way, this thread led me to sea-slugs, and the amazing blue dragon:

It EATS the stinging tentacles from the portuguese man o' war and then incorporates them into it's skin. The bright colours are an advert of this type of extreme toxicity, and not unsurprisingly some other critters try to fake the flashy warning costume without actually being able to munch dangerous jellyfish (yes, pedants, I KNOW the man o'war isn't actually a jellyfish...........). Make of that what you will :-)

But go look up sea-slugs, the name isn't promising, but the dresses are amazing!

Can anyone imagine telling Beyoncé to wear jeans and a t shirt.