BBC's John Simpson slams 'gender neutral' toilets at Broadcasting House

SD1978 · 03/12/2018 07:09

So we ignore the wants or wishes of almost 20000, in order to not offend 400. I do love this logic.

littlecabbage · 03/12/2018 07:16

The statement from the Beeb says that there are male, female and single occupancy mixed sex toilets available, but I wonder if all three are available in all areas? I suspect not.

HopeGarden · 03/12/2018 07:18

I’m assuming the single occupancy mixed sex toilets are the disabled ones?

JingleBellsSitDown · 03/12/2018 07:24

The thing I find most revealing about that whole article is this...’Statistics released last year show that 417 employees of the BBC’s 21,239 staff indentify as transgender’

That’s almost 2%.
Nationally it’s more like 0.2%

Why do you think that is?

I wonder how many people have identified as being transgender in the last few years compared to the previous few.

It goes without saying that the BBC’s policy would be achingly right on and to screw over the women they employ. They have form for this with the way they pay their employees.

This is sadly the most unsurprising story I’ll read today.

Good on John Simpson though.

BlytheSpiritsSpirit · 03/12/2018 07:30

BBC's bias towards transgender issues is well documented here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3296433-BBC-Bias-Collecting-Examples-here

ChattyLion · 03/12/2018 07:50

A [BBC] spokesperson told the newspaper: “We are proud to support diversity and have a BBC that is open to everyone, and New Broadcasting House has male and female toilets along with single-occupancy toilets which can be used by any member of staff regardless of gender.”

They do know that you can already express your gender however you want in a single-sex toilet, right? Single sex toilets are already gender neutral.

rightreckoner · 03/12/2018 07:52

Glad to see comments on yahoo are almost universally with John Simpson. I wondered if it was just my Times/MN echo chamber. Didn’t think it was - and. no, it isn’t. Everybody hates this.

Thank you John Simpson.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 03/12/2018 07:57

I love how ‘diversity is celebrated’ - by ignoring the wants and needs of women, religious types and people who just think this whole idea is whack.

BlytheSpirits · 03/12/2018 08:09

I just want to share the magnificent Leeds Spinners' banner here.

BBC's John Simpson slams 'gender neutral' toilets at Broadcasting House

dogzdinner · 03/12/2018 08:10

What is the problem with toilets that can be used by anyone? Seriously I don't understand what the issue is

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 03/12/2018 08:16

What is the problem with toilets that can be used by anyone? Seriously I don't understand what the issue is

they are harmful to women dogzdinner

increased rates of voyeurism

increased rates of sexual assaults
women from strict religious groups can't use them, thus further curtailing their ability to move freely in society
I value my privacy and dignity, which are eroded by having to take a shit next to a man I don't know, or even worse, next to my male colleagues

dogzdinner · 03/12/2018 08:20

They're single occupancy. You're not in a room with other people.

astoundedgoat · 03/12/2018 08:28

When done properly, i.e not my sticking a gender neutral sticker on the door of the women's loos, there is no problem with mixed loos. When there are solid floor to ceiling walls and doors, with the sink and mirror in the cubicle with you, you are100% private, and short of someone bringing a Black & Decker to work, you are at no more risk of voyeurism than you would be in a traditional single sex toilet.

My husband's workplace had mixed loos that have been properly constructed (proper dividing walls, not a piece of mdf) and it's perfectly fine.

If it's done lazily then it is definitely worth objecting to vigorously, but I don't object on general principle.

Sexnotgender · 03/12/2018 08:35

If mixed sex toilets meet the appropriate regulations then they’re absolutely fine.

If they’re regular cubicles with a ‘gender neutral’ sign slapped on them I’d kick up merry hell.

UpstartCrow · 03/12/2018 08:42

Voyeurs don't need a Black and Decker, they use concealed cameras. They are usually concealed in a toilet brush or coat hook.
they a also raid the used sanpro bin.

The floor to ceiling doors needed in mixed sex toilets are a hazard for people who have passed out inside, such as a woman who has suffered a miscarriage and fainted. (Women don't just use toilets to pee in.)

Also, the single enclosed rooms mean they can can fit fewer toilets into each bathroom. Why the actual fuck should able bodied people demand more toilet space when venues already get away with saying they don't have room for disabled access toilets?

AngryAttackKittens · 03/12/2018 08:59

Does anyone actually believe the Beeb converted their entire existing stock of toilet to single occupancy? Not very likely, is it? Thus a very silly attempt at a gotcha.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 03/12/2018 09:01

The times I’ve been in the loos adjusting underwear, hoiking up my tights, doing makeup, fixing a bust zip or missing button, having a blue... it’s bad enough to have to skulk in the loos but it would be far worse with men in there too.

I remember reading about the number of miscarriages that occur in the bathrooms - quite an eye opener.

Loos were split by sex for a reason. Unisex loos (I remember these being a trendy thing in the 70s) didn’t go down well and today these are usually as a result of space and access - not because some people demand access to a loo opposite from their physical reality.

But the whole ‘gender’ loos - I don’t label myself as my gender (which I refuse to acknowledge as it’s a load of nonsense) but by my sex. My physical sex - that I can never change in a million years.

ChattyLion · 03/12/2018 09:04

What’s the problem with self contained gender neutral toilets?

Well: there’s a common problem of a lack of female toilet provision already in most cases which his can exacerbate or do nothing to help? Also, men piss everywhere but the toilet and don’t clean up after themselves? They don’t bother lifting the seat, they make the floor wet? They also leave the gender neutral door unlocked or open behind them meaning that women can walk in on them mid-piss, cock in hand?

Lots of women feel that ‘gender neutral’ toilets become de facto men’s toilets and they also mean less choices for women because the single-sex female toilet option is often taken away, and a lot of women would often prefer to use women’s toilets. Not gender neutral.

See these threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3427085-Men-in-gender-neutral-toilets

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3337295-DM-Women-avoiding-new-gender-neutral-toilets-in-the-home-office-because-men-cant-close-the-door

There are also various threads discussing how people use single sex toilets, and how important many of them find it is to have a single sex toilet space available.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3243189-Uncomfortable-about-unisex-toilets-at-work

It has been recently discussed with regards to male students’ unhappiness about it here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241624-dirty-protest-over-somerville-college-oxford-s-gender-neutral-loos

& some women's unhappiness here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237230-NUS-Conference-breaks-down-after-the-UK-Border-Force-Arrive

whilst this thread discussed some of the reasons women use and rely on women’s public loos (ie not ‘gender neutral’ toilets) :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

dogzdinner · 03/12/2018 09:09

There's nothing in this story to suggest that there aren't enough female toilets at the BBC.

Surely it's reasonable to also provide a space for people who feel uncomfortable in the female or male toilets.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/12/2018 09:10

There's nothing in the story to even vaguely suggest that there are any exclusively single sex toilets left at all.

dogzdinner · 03/12/2018 09:18

It says there are male and female toilets and single occupancy ones that anyone can use.

BlytheSpiritsSpirit · 03/12/2018 09:19

For those of you who have no problems with mixed sex toilets and not questioning the presence of men in female spaces, j suggest you look into the issues that women in Korea face. What is known as molka is at "epidemic" levels.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/03/a-part-of-daily-life-south-korea-confronts-its-voyeurism-epidemic-sexual-harassment

Women don't leave the house without a container of vaseline to obscure the tiny cameras in public toilets and changing rooms.

I am not someone's porn. I deserve privacy and dignity when using toilet and changing facilities.

I say no to this. No.

AngryAttackKittens · 03/12/2018 09:20

Wasn't the Beeb's plan to make all their toilets gender neutral? Have they seen sense on that?

dogzdinner · 03/12/2018 09:25

I don't see what most of the comments on this thread have to do with this situation. The BBC has added gender neutral toilets in addition to the female and male ones.

No one is being made to share toilets with men.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 03/12/2018 09:28

The piece didn’t say if it was some or all. At best you’d need to trek further to find a women’s loo, at worst, use the loos in a local coffee shop.