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Original poster

Julie Bindel is on Woman's Hour tomorrow!

281 replies

PimmsnLemonade · 02/12/2018 22:58

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1069358508280287234

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11
needmorespace · 03/12/2018 11:05

can someone post a link to where I can listen to it - I don't seem to be able to find it on the bbc website

Datun · 03/12/2018 11:06

I cannot, for the life of me, see how having sex with someone who has a penis can ever be lesbian sex, no matter how they present, what they are wearing, think their inner truth is, or what pronouns they want to be used.

Going along with it because you feel you should respect the other persons feelings and beliefs is surely pity sex and the beginning of the good-intention-paved road to coercion and rape

Exactly. It been recommended by a lesbian, who runs a magazine for lesbians, who is saying that yes penises can be a lesbian body part, and remember transwomen get hit, assaulted and murdered, but no lesbians are being pressured by that, is a mindfuck of mammoth proportions.

It's just lying. Barefaced, blatant lying.

FlowerShirt · 03/12/2018 11:07

Heterosexual Teens to people in their 70s see it as pity sex and corrosive control rape.

My social circle isn't middle-class, they see transwomen as males and the whole thing makes them cross with confusing incomprehensible language and funny.

thewitchofwentworth · 03/12/2018 11:08

Linda Riley definitely knows what is going on, a lot of lesbians have told her. She is ignoring it for personal profit.

KinCat · 03/12/2018 11:09

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001d8k

Here's the link to listen.

QuaterMiss · 03/12/2018 11:09

So pleased I stumbled upon that conversation. 'German shepherd' was hilarious.

littlbrowndog · 03/12/2018 11:09

I don’t get when the debate is about lesbians and pressure put onto lesbians to accept dick to trans day of remberance and violence towards trans women from RIley as part of the debate
It was like she didn’t have a coherent argument so just brought out the most oppressed people ever mantra

Datun · 03/12/2018 11:10

it is actually frustrating for me as a GC feminist to not get both sides of the argument. I want to understand it more clearly - but all I get is "transphobic".

You understand it perfectly rememberatime.

There is a reason why they hashtagged NoDebate. Why they class disagreement as inciting violence, claim that feminists want them dead, and that we are encouraging genocide.

The entire argument is, and always has been, that transwomen are women. Without defining the word or agreeing that you can change sex.

The reason you haven't heard a coherent argument, is because there isn't one.

They know it, we know it, and all we have to do is let the general public know it.

AncientLights · 03/12/2018 11:12

Is Linda Riley anything to do with the fragrant Riley J Dennis, do we know? Opposite sides of the pond to be sure, but very similar views. Or maybe 'Riley' is a thing in Transland, like 'Fae'.

Beagadorsrock · 03/12/2018 11:12

what melamin said

ps is there a link to the show/the bit in the show where this is discussed? I have a rare moment when I could listen

WrathofbubonicKlop · 03/12/2018 11:13

Linda is an odd one.
Her background seems to be gay rights journalism since about 2010.

Fair enough but Is there anything else?

FlowerShirt · 03/12/2018 11:14

What a disabilityphobe Linda is - no respect for International Day Of Persons With Disabilities - just talking about transwomen.

crsacre · 03/12/2018 11:20

Linda Riley was involved setting up a museum to celebrate Jack the Ripper:
freedomnews.org.uk/a-person-related-to-the-ripper-museum-awarded-labour-party-lgbtq-lead-advisor-post/

BlackeyedGruesome · 03/12/2018 11:21

why did she not explain what she thought was transphobic? there will be listeners all over the country going "eh?"

it did nto seem logical to include domestic violence/transday of remembrance in the discussion at the point it was added.

Melamin · 03/12/2018 11:24

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001d8k
Link again - keep posting it - it is compelling (like Prof Stock, Prof Freedman, Helen Lewis being middle of the road about it, and Michelle Moores important contribution on safeguarding)

I am still waiting for a compelling argument for self-id, or even the status quo, from anybody that is not pity.

incallthebloodytime · 03/12/2018 11:27

I don't get why Linda doesn't want to differentiate in her language and to reinforce that she won't and why she shouldn't... it's because trans women experience domestic violence and are scared

She can't actually make herself explicitly say it's because she believes that they actually are women (obviously she's trying to imply it)

She says that she can't because they have a tough time too

arranbubonicplague · 03/12/2018 11:27

a mindfuck of mammoth proportions.

It's just lying. Barefaced, blatant lying.

It's been observed before I know - but this sort of head gaming, emotional manipulation and coercion is textbook Freedom Programme. What's novel is that being played out, to applause, on a societal level via mainstream and social media and bleeding over into schoolgrounds and where other vulnerable demographics gather. The language is also teaching would-be abusers the vocabulary and ideas that they need to coerce the 'othered'.

KinCat · 03/12/2018 11:28

Not sure what the point of this was. I enjoyed listening to Julie Bindel but if Linda Reiley doesn't have anything to say on the topic then why didn't they get someone else on the show who does have something to say about it? It's not really an argument to say "lah lah lah, not listening".

I have to say I agree with a pp that it's frustrating to not hear proper coherent arguments from the non-GC side. It probably isn't a deliberate co-ordinated effort but it seems like an effective way to shut down the debate.

OrchidInTheSun · 03/12/2018 11:29

Its because there aren't any proper coherent arguments from the trans side of the debate.

LikeDust · 03/12/2018 11:31

Just listened to it. Julie Bindel was very clear and her points were clearly justified.

Linda Riley tended to say 'not in my experience' or 'transwomen' have a hard time and it is women's/lesbian's responsibility to come to the rescue and include them.

It is worth remembering that TRAs have been strategically targeting/grooming every organisation for women for years and sucking up to the most powerful people in it, employing all the charm, sweetness and light they can muster.

It's the women on the coal face who see this shit for what it is because their lowly status isn't worth the effort of a charm offensive from TRAs

KinCat · 03/12/2018 11:33

I think you're right Orchid. It's just frustrating and feels very weird to have debates aired on a serious radio show where it feels like one person at debate club didn't do their homework.

IChargeAtYou · 03/12/2018 11:33

My impression is that TRAs are either personality disordered bullshitters knowingly telling lies or vulnerable people in need of support, the more they debate the more the public are aware.

IChargeAtYou · 03/12/2018 11:37

Watch E 'keeping up with the Kardashians' to see how lobby groups groom, this was covered in yesterday's episode - enlightening how Kourtney was under informed and manipulated.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=_r6uQDUJXjk

MsJeminaPuddleduck · 03/12/2018 11:37

*a mindfuck of mammoth proportions.

It's just lying. Barefaced, blatant lying.*

Yes - with Arran - this

LizzieSiddal · 03/12/2018 11:39

Across this entire series on Woman's Hour, the person speaking for the Trans side of the argument is incoherent, rambly, repetitive and misinformed (or clueless).

That is because, when talkings about women’s rights, there is no coherent Trans argument. It’s just mind fuckery and gaslighting.