Julie Bindel is on Woman's Hour tomorrow!

[PimmsnLemonade]

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1069358508280287234

Linda quoted Stonewall numbers about transwomen being victims of domestic violence.

I do find it hard to believe this - that a born man suffers domestic violence at the hands of a woman ( a wife or girlfriend assuming it was a heterosexual relationship to begin with) simply because men are bigger and stronger than women so unless it's being done in manner of Pauline Fowler with a frying pan I simply don't believe in the violence aspect. Huge rows yes, physical domestic violence no.

Did Linda misquote it with 'domestic' violence rather than just violence?

Julie was great as always.

Linda's entire argument involved now transwomen are the victims of sexual violence, the victims of domestic violence, and the transgender day of remembrance,

At the absolute best, Linda seems to be arguing for a pity fuck for transwomen, whilst at exactly same time telling women exactly how dangerous men are.

It's difficult to listen to such rank stupidity.

Oh dear. Linda didn't do very well against Julie. JB was as always very articulate and effective and talked about material reality while Linda... was neither of those things and talked about feelings and being offended.
But was there an elephant in the room there?

RudolfIsMySpiritAnimal I don't tweet, what's the reaction looking like on Twitter?

Nor am I, but looking at the WH page itself, am I being stupid? I can't see any Tweets about Julie's appearance, although there are others about different parts of the show.

twitter.com/BBCWomansHour

Linda never heard of this pressure for lesbians to conform to "inclusivity"(dicks)?
AfterEllen, a lesbian and bi site on twitter w 123k followers (diva mag only has 75k followers), just posted Arielle Scarcellas vlog about exactly this titled "Dear Trans Women, please stop pushing girl dick on lesbians"

I find it very difficult to believe that Linda has never heard of any lesbians being pressured to accept transwomen.
Julie was fantastic, very articulate. Linda's arguments just amounted to appealing to female socialisation to be nice. At least Linda was there to discuss it though, better than refusing to share a studio with GC people.

Is Linda Riley trans?

I am astonished that Linda said she was unaware of young lesbians being pressured to have relationships with genitally-intact transwomen.

I'm straight and I'm aware of it.

The Equality Act differentiates between trans people and gay people. I am deeply suspicious of people who want to destroy human rights legislation that protects womens rights and gay rights.

ShotsFired yes I noticed it wasn’t mentioned too!

Strange...

I am astonished that Linda said she was unaware of young lesbians being pressured to have relationships with genitally-intact transwomen.

It's deceitful, it's what it is. How can she stay in one breath that men with penises are women, and lesbians, and in exactly the same breath not acknowledge that in that case, lesbians are their natural partners?

She is actually agreeing that lesbians should include penises in their dating pool. And then going all wide eyed, faux innocence, with what do you mean lesbians are being pressured? She is pressuring.

Ugh.

One great Twitter comment

I don’t know why you said lesbians haven’t told you about pressure on girls to have sex with trans women
@LindaRiley8
as I thought we discussed that when we met? And I’ve asked you specifically to cover a list of issues worrying lesbians. Should I resend it?

I live in heterosexual land, only having had one gay male and two bisexual female friends. Heterosexual land opinion in every generation is "leave the lesbians alone".

She is complicit.

Linda sounded ridiculous frankly

She hasn't heard if it ergo it didn't happen and she wasnt willing to listen for a second. Just kept banging on about inclusivity

...as I thought we discussed that when we met? And I’ve asked you specifically to cover a list of issues worrying lesbians. Should I resend it?

I hope the evidence is given to Julie.

Julie Bindel getting a lot of support on her own Twitter page

Beautifully summarised by Kathleen Stock on Twitter:

“I think we can all conclude from
@BBCWomansHour
today so far that a)
@sammywoodhouse1
is an inspiration b)
@bindelj
is a total rockstar and c) Linda Riley definitely, without a doubt, owns a magazine called Diva."

My twitter timeline is an echo chamber and everyone is celebrating Julie

BUT there are some very interesting tweets circulating in which Anne Ruzylo and others have sent Linda Riley if lesbians complaining about pressure to accept transwomen as sexual partners. Directly contradicting Linda's stance that she's not aware of it.

Credit due though to Linda for turning up and debating though.

'Of' lesbians not 'if' - sorry

Lovely, well thought out, well researched arguments there Linda. No it isn’t; I haven’t seen it; inclusive inclusive inclusive; translesbians are lesbians; trans suffer domestic violence; inclusive inclusive inclusive; no it isn’t; I haven’t seen it; yes Diva is a mag specifically for lesbians, it’s a mag for everybody; poor trans; no it isn’t you’re transphobic; you’re too transphobic; you’re hurting me with your transphobic language; right side of history.

I suppose she was willing to discuss with Julie, which is something. Notice to date the female pro-trans contributors have been willing to share a platform, but the transwomen have been to afraid of the hurty words.

Well done Julie, me and DP, actual lesbians, were punching the air when you spoke. I’d love to have heard JB’s thoughts during that interview.

Linda Riley is a fucking lyre when she’s says she’s never heard of any of these issues. I’m an isolated dyke who never ventures out onto ‘the scene’ nowadays I’m only too aware. I’ve been seeing the signs for years. Willfully blind is what you are Linda, and wilful blindness never lands you on the right side of history.

DP is now listening to the other WH discussions. I can hear the shreeks of ‘what?’ And ‘too right’ coming from the kitchen.

Re defining the meaning of the word lesbian was Riley

At a recent domestic abuse awareness session I attended the figure of 1 in 6 men and 1 in 3 women being victims of domestic abuse was quoted. So if these numbers are correct TW are victims of domestic abuse at the rate as Men and a lesser rate than Women.

I don’t know enough about the stats I was given or the quoted Stonewall ones to know that I am comparing apples with apples here re: abuse / violence and sex / gender.

I cannot, for the life of me, see how having sex with someone who has a penis can ever be lesbian sex, no matter how they present, what they are wearing, think their inner truth is, or what pronouns they want to be used.

Going along with it because you feel you should respect the other persons feelings and beliefs is surely pity sex and the beginning of the good-intention-paved road to coercion and rape

Across this entire series on Woman's Hour, the person speaking for the Trans side of the argument is incoherent, rambly, repetitive and misinformed (or clueless).

Do they really not have any decent spokespeople who understand their arguments and can translate them into fodder that is good for radio and TV?

it is actually frustrating for me as a GC feminist to not get both sides of the argument. I want to understand it more clearly - but all I get is "transphobic".