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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury’s Public Service Announcement 2

999 replies

arranbubonicplague · 30/11/2018 12:54

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

This is a continuation of the first Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3321127-public-service-announcement

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we’ve had several community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links in following posts.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Iused2BanOptimist · 31/01/2019 20:37

Bump

NeurotrashWarrior · 01/02/2019 18:22

I didn't see beyond 10 messages but I'm sorry the MB thread was taken down as everyone was proving how awesome fwr is.

GrinitchSpinach · 01/02/2019 18:51

And, my friends, in this story you have a history of this entire movement. First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you. And that, is what is going to happen to the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America.

R0wantrees · 01/02/2019 19:01

Dr Jane Monckton Smith
(Forensic Criminologist specialising in homicide, Coercive Control and stalking. )

"In coercive control, the controlling person will keep diverting the actual argument to push the victim to keep defending themselves against spurious accusations. That way the victim cannot put their side, and seems to onlookers to be guilty of something. It’s a strategy."

twitter.com/JMoncktonSmith

Bunbury’s Public Service Announcement 2
LangCleg · 05/02/2019 11:52

"I am gender critical but I disagree with anyone posting anything that may be gender critical."

Jus' sayin'.

WunderBlah · 05/02/2019 15:24

It is really hard not to get drawn into it!

"In coercive control, the controlling person will keep diverting the actual argument to push the victim to keep defending themselves against spurious accusations. That way the victim cannot put their side, and seems to onlookers to be guilty of something. It’s a strategy."

This should be a sticky at the top of every thread!

userschmoozer · 05/02/2019 15:33

I'm just going to add a trigger warning to R0's post as the link is currently showing a horrific murder.

Needmoresleep · 05/02/2019 17:02

I never normally post here, but what is going on? New moon or something. Or just that as daylight is shone on the issue, campaigners have responded by becoming more aggressive.

WunderBlah · 05/02/2019 17:49

There is definitely a new shit sandwich tactic spreading and it's really getting irritating. The posts that always start "I am a feminist but" or "I have always been gc but". It is a very insidious and unsubtle infiltration that is making swiss cheese of good threads. I rather would like a highlight or omit post option so I can go through threads reading the actual conversation and not waste my time on the long flatulent bullish derails!

I presume this is all a ploy to show how unreasonable us actual gc women are?

FloralBunting · 05/02/2019 17:54

Definitely light and critical attention, as opposed to fawning, creating frustration and lashing out. When my kids are caught out they do this kind of flailing desperation, and most mums I know are familiar with it and know the response is calm, implacable firmness. I mean this inclusively, to all the women who post here and aren't mums too, but, let's all be more more mum in response to increased batshittery.

littlbrowndog · 05/02/2019 17:58

Yes the batshittery. But the never quite answering a question which shoes up the batshittery
Ignored while trying to divert

Knicknackpaddyflak · 05/02/2019 18:16

There is definitely a new shit sandwich tactic spreading and it's really getting irritating.

I think it's Chumplady, that specialist in abusive, narcissistic men who says it doesn't matter how microscopically little shit is in a sandwich - any normal person still wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

Needmoresleep · 05/02/2019 19:26

I feel sorry for new posters who are hit with scepticism if they ask innocent questions. I hope they find this thread an understand.

Iused2BanOptimist · 06/02/2019 09:15

Bump. It's rather brave and stunning to start a thread when you are new to Mumsnet and not familiar with the ways of regular users.
Or a bit naive perhaps.

AngryAttackKittens · 06/02/2019 09:29

What does one say when a person who one doesn't think is particularly bright is attempting to coercively control them, and doing a shit job of it? I mean, it's not working, but I do sometimes worry that other women may be reading it and deciding to keep silent in case the rage is turned on them instead.

R0wantrees · 06/02/2019 09:44

I don't think attempted coersive control is in the sprirt of the board. Its not civilised.

Mumsnet are promoting a campaign to raise awareness -->

AngryAttackKittens · 06/02/2019 09:45

If we're going to have offenses that people get banned for it would be lovely if they could add that to the list.

R0wantrees · 06/02/2019 10:07

Important to be aware of how gaslighting works in coversations both in real life and on social media forums:

'50 Shades Of Gaslighting: Disturbing Signs An Abuser Is Twisting Your Reality'

(extract)
Gaslighting in Conversations
What does gaslighting look like in day to day conversations? It usually involves some form of the following:

Malignant repetition of falsehoods. As noted previously, repeating a lie frequently enough can become a way to reinforce and cement it as truth. Whether these lies are seemingly innocuous or potentially damaging, they can overwrite existing perceptions.

“You flirted with that guy. I saw you.”

“I am such a nice guy/girl. I treat you so well.”

“I told you, I was at work. You need to stop with these baseless accusations.”

“I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”

Minimizing the impact or severity of the abuse. This is when the gaslighter has committed a serious offense against you and instead of acknowledging it, minimizes the impact the abuse had on you or the gravity of the abuse. Tell-tale signs someone is minimizing verbal, emotional or even physical abuse may sound something like:

“That wasn’t even abusive. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill.”

“I didn’t hurt you that badly. You’re just being a crybaby. There’s barely a scar.”

“I didn’t raise my voice. You’re just misinterpreting things.”

“So what if I cursed? Are you a child? Do I have to censor myself?”

Projection and generalization – The gaslighter diverts the claim back to the victim, claiming that he or she is the one who “always” creates trouble, when in fact, it is the gaslighter who is perpetually creating chaos and refusing to validate the victim’s claims. The gaslighter then generalizes all of the victim’s claims and assertions as ridiculous or characterizes them as attempts to create conflict, as if conflict did not already exist in the first place. Common examples include:

“You’re just so sensitive.”

“You take everything so seriously!”

“You’re always causing trouble.”

“You just love drama.”

Withholding information and stonewalling – The abuser is unwilling to engage in the conversation at all and often shuts down the conversation any time a claim is made against him or her about their behavior. This might look like:

“I am done discussing this.”

“I am not going to argue with you, this is pointless.”

“This conversation is not going anywhere.”

“That doesn’t even warrant a response.”

“The fact that you’re accusing me of that says a lot more about you than it does me.”

Questioning their memory, emotional stability and/or competence – The abuser avoids accusations and conversations by questioning the victim’s memory or ability to comprehend the situation in an unbiased way.

They may say things like, “I don’t remember that. Are you sure you’re remembering that correctly?” even if the event just happened a few moments ago. They may call into question a victim’s awareness, or, if they’ve engaged in substance abuse coercion with the victim, may use that against them to ensure that no one would believe them by asking things like, “Have you been drinking again?” or “Are you off your meds?”

Other common phrases include:

“You really have some issues.”

“You need to learn how to trust people.”

“God, you’re crazy.”

“You need to calm down and think about this.”

“You’re blowing everything out of proportion, as usual.”

Bringing in a third party/the triangulation maneuver. Triangulation is the act of bringing in another person into the dynamic of a toxic interaction. While we usually talk about triangulation in the context of manufacturing love triangles, when it is used in gaslighting, it can manifest quite differently.

Triangulation (in the context of gaslighting) can be used to confirm the abuser’s version of reality and shame you into believing that you truly are alone in your beliefs and perceptions. It fuels a victim’s sense of alienation when another person (or a group of people – such as the narcissist’s harem) agrees with his or her distortions.

Malignant narcissists are prone to recruiting what the survivor community refers to as “flying monkeys” to agree with their perspective. They may bring these people in physically to confirm their point of view (“Hey Sandra, what do you think? Isn’t Laura being paranoid?”), or even mention them in passing (“Even Sandra agreed with me that you’re being a bit paranoid, Laura”). (continues)

thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2017/11/50-shades-of-gaslighting-the-disturbing-signs-an-abuser-is-twisting-your-reality/

littlbrowndog · 06/02/2019 10:13

There it all is rowan

R0wantrees · 06/02/2019 10:23

lbd Indeed

I chopped the last one, sorry:

"Diversions from the topic to assassinate the victim’s character or challenge the validity of the relationship. The gaslighter diverts the focus from his or her behavior onto the perceived character traits of the victim"

littlbrowndog · 06/02/2019 10:24

Yeps watching that unfurl in real time

R0wantrees · 06/02/2019 10:31

the article concludes:

"Society also routinely gaslights survivors of abuse or assault by interrogating them about their behavior and minimizing the impact of what they experienced. Politicians, lawmakers and court systems can dismiss the impact of emotional abuse by allowing it to fall under the convenient umbrella of “nonviolence” while setting the perpetrators free to commit more crimes that will never be prosecuted under a court of law.

Those who benefit from an enormous amount of privilege can condemn those more marginalized when they speak out about social injustices like racism, sexism and ableism because it threatens their positions of power and control. They may call those who fight for justice “divisive” or “hateful” simply because they’re calling out bigotry, prejudice or unjust laws. Institutions may “gaslight” disadvantaged populations any time they wish to maintain that power by shifting the focus onto the behavior of marginalized people rather than examining what they can do to better support these populations.

There are many ways and contexts where we experience gaslighting and it is not just restricted to an abusive relationship. It is up to us as individuals and as a larger society to tackle gaslighting when we see it. Whether it is done with malicious intent or unwitting naiveté, gaslighting bears dangerous consequences when it goes unchallenged. Gaslighting has the power to shape and rewrite our reality. It’s about time we take back the narrative and hold fast to the truth – unapologetically owning our stories as we do so"

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 06/02/2019 16:54

Saw this on twitter yesterday and hope it posts Ok :D

Bunbury’s Public Service Announcement 2
VickyEadie · 19/02/2019 16:42

I think we have a groomer, harvester and screenshotter among us.

LangCleg · 19/02/2019 16:43

I was just looking for this thread to say the same thing, Vicky.

Please be sensible everyone (although I see this is already unlikely).