Women who aren't feminists

[HumourlessFeminist]

I've been thinking about this for a while.

I was blissfully unaware of feminism for far too long 😳, probably until a few years after DS was born (and after a few years of MNing). Is this a relatively common experience for women? Are women more likely to become feminists as they experience more of what the patriarchy pushes upon them throughout their lives? And why do some women never become feminists?

The NSPCC refers inquirers to the Child Protection in Sport Unit's guidance, which determines 8 years old as the age at which children should not enter the opposite sex changing facilities.

Not all men are potential paedophiles Bertrand. it's no more acceptable to say that than it is to say they are all rapists.

Bertrand knows this - however, those who believe men identifying as women should have free access to women's changing rooms are sometimes the same people arguing that boys shouldn't be made to go into the men's because of risks to them from the men who might be in there.

All women are potential paedophiles too.

All women are potentially capable of sexual assault too.

And if you're the victim, I don't think the stats of male v female perps would be any comfort to you tbh.

I think it comes down to an interpretation of the language.
I interpret ‘all men are potential rapists’ to mean, ‘any man could be a rapist - you can’t tell by the way they look, act, etc.’
I wonder if people objecting to the statement take it to mean, ‘all men would like to rape us, they just need to have an opportunity’.

I think there is a difference of being aware of it and then demanding that all aspects of society are geared up to this

Can you give some examples of the "demands" referred to?

Of course if you notice big systemic issues that are negatively impacting a particular demographic group - particularly when it's your own - you're probably going to want to try to change them, no? Like the suffragettes did, for example - and I'm very glad they did.

All rights have to be considered with regard to those of others in your society as well of course - one of the biggest issues feminists currently have with some trans rights activists - but I'm not sure which "feminist demands" to change the rest of society are specifically being referred to here.

The suggestion that if one doesn't proclaim oneself as a feminist then one is tacitly supporting the likes of prostitution, pornography and forced marriage is risible.
I agree.

"Not all men are potential paedophiles Bertrand. it's no more acceptable to say that than it is to say they are all rapists."
So why do people not want their boys to go into male changing rooms to get ready for swimming then?

All women are potentially capable of sexual assault too

Except statistics show that they are FAR less likely to be. So in the real world, it isn't equal. Again, what would you like us to do with the facts around this? Ignore them? We need to be able to name problems in order to resolve them, surely?

That said, I agree with you that victims of anyone shouldn't be ignored, regardless of the gender of the perp. And I can see how blind spots have been created from JUST talking about people who fit the overall pattern of the stats and acting like there are no exceptions.

It depends what you mean by ‘all men are potential paedophiles’. You’re discussing this at cross purposes.

So why do people not want their boys to go into male changing rooms to get ready for swimming then?

Because you can't keep your eye on them? Can't make sure they haven't left the changing room and wandered into the pool or gone outside? Can't help them work the lockers or check that they've pucked their stuff up. Many reasons that aren't to do with seeing a paedophile around every corner.

And please someone explain to me the issue of having an 8 year old boy in the enclosed cubicle of a female changing room, with his mum? What threat to privacy does that pose?

"And if you're the victim, I don't think the stats of male v female perps would be any comfort to you tbh."
No. But it is the stats that we use to negotiate our way through life. The overwhelming majority of violence and sexual assault is committed by men. We -both men and women- are wise to be wary of men in potentially risky situations. We do not need to be as wary of women.

Bertrand. My boys are long past that age but I was quite happy to send them in to the mens once they reached the appropriate age to get changed, so I don't really know why you're addressing those type of questions to me, and not answering the ones I have addressed directly to you.

I believe there is an age (of 7 or 8 I can't remember at my local leisure centre what it is) that below which children are permitted to go into the opposite sex changing room to get changed (usually with their parent) and after that age it isn't permitted. I am fine with that.

Oh, come on! The swimming pool threads are always about how much danger boys are in in male changing rooms! But if it's about a NT boy not being able to organise himself, it's for his parent to find a way to manage things in a way that does not require girls to budge up.
Anyway, I think that subject is rather done to death. But as for the privacy issue. A girl should be able to walk from the shower to a cubicle in a women's changing room wearing a towel secure in the knowledge that she will not come across any boys. Because it is a designated women only space. The same applies to boys. They should have their space too (as I said on a thread about girls in the boy's changing room at a dance school recently).

Innocent- I'm sorry- I didn't see that you had addressed questions to me. I have to dash out for a bit now-I'll find and address them when I get back.

BertrandRussell

I have never been one of those saying that I thought there was a danger from men in the changing rooms so I can't answer for others.
And I think that you are being unduly harsh claiming that a NT boy of 8 should be able to organise themselves. Some can, some might need help. And it's a lit to expect from a what yr 3 or 4 student? And to trust that they won't run out of the changing room and jump into the pool? If 8yr olds are so trustworthy why can't we leave them at home on their own? Surely you should be able to trust them not to get into any trouble?

I've never said there was a danger from men in the changing rooms either, so why is Bertrand expecting me to answer for others who have a completely different view to me, that isn't one I share?

zzzzzz I don’t think you can compare feminism with having sugar in your tea - well, I can’t. The one is infinitely more important than the other. But if they are of equal import to you then that probably explains why we are at such complete cross purposes.

The suggestion that if one doesn't proclaim oneself as a feminist then one is tacitly supporting the likes of prostitution, pornography and forced marriage is risible.

Depends what you mean by feminist, a liberal feminist would regard some of those things as "choices" for heaven's sake whereas radical feminism would regard that view as risible. And want to get rid of sex work of all kinds.

I think that there is such a huge gulf between radical feminism and liberal feminism that any discussion such as this it'd be helpful to know which bits people are objecting to? I can't be lib fem can it?

zzzzz

I reported that post - it is offensive in the extreme.

I reported it too. but didn't want to say I'd reported it in case that was not allowed (I didnt' think it was?)