I was one of the transactivists on the channel 4 documentary, I regret what I did — this is why

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

medium.com/@Betsulimo/i-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-i-regret-what-i-did-this-is-why-7e12350ab6d3

Someone who was filmed trying to stop the “we need to talk” session now thinks they were wrong for attempting to shut down debate and realises that they were intimidating women

Kind of disappointed as I only saw the first half of the thread title and I thought it’d be an Ask Me Anything

You're in luck! Head on over to Twitter:

https://twitter.com/elmskid/status/1066660871739531264?s=20

Your brain isn’t fully developed until you are twenties but you are legally responsible at 16.

Being responsible doesn’t require you to be ‘fully developed’.

You are not a kid who’s brain suddenly switches to adult-mode at 25. People know damn well that threatening women in a stairwell or planning to set off a smoke bomb in a crowded room is wrong. It’s is absolutely not true that these thugs are kids who do not know what they are dong is wrong.

I hope that the blog post is investigated and that those who planned a smokebombing are prosecuted. I don’t care if they are 25 or if they are only 16.

stomping on olive branches is not going to get us anywhere.

If this is a genuine olive branch I would agree.

It does, however, have overtones of being in line with the plan to have a more acceptable public face, as discussed in the meeting that someone attended covertly.

It will be interesting to see if more people step forward or even undertake to listen to the WPUK-arranged talks etc.

I'm in my early 30s. I think it's a mistake to start infantilising the TRAs and excusing their ideology and actions because they're younger than most of us. Unless they're actual children, it's really not relevant. There are people in their early twenties with responsible jobs and/or children of their own. The vast majority of people in their twenties, even if they're still students and haven't had a great deal of wider life experience, don't advocate this kind of authoritarianism. I had childishly naive, poorly expressed political opinions at 12. Not at 22.

I feel sorry for the children transed by their parents very young. They're the ones steeped in the ideology, the ones who are going to have difficulties when they reach adulthood if they realise what has been done to them and have conflicted feelings about it. But the woke middle-class studenty types? No. They aren't children, they know what they're doing, and they need to be held responsible for it.

I might be wrong about Esther and Esther might have genuinely changed, but I'm not seeing the evidence of it from that article. It'll take more than that to convince me,

I may be a trans woman, but I’m still bigger than most women and I’m still scary when I’m wearing a balaclava and shouting at you.

And yet you don't grant women permission to feel that fear, discomfort and plain recognition of you as a biological male and differently bodied in spaces where they feel vulnerable or are undressing? How's that cognitive dissonance working out for you?

You can't also seriously expect women to hand over their voices, rights, spaces and identities in sympathy because you lost your housing through being trans (I'd like to know more about that because if it was purely about them realising you had a trans identity where's the court case please and how can I support you with that because it's against the law?) or being harassed and assaulted in the street. Pretty much every woman who reads here has been harassed or assaulted at some point for merely possessing female biology near a male who felt entitled to it. How many women here have lost their homes through abusive and violent partners, (and have often had kids with them to care for and experienced not only homelessness but flight from strangling, battering, financial control), deal all their lives with the endless crap that comes from being born in female biology? Being anything but a masculine, conforming male in our society sucks and causes disadvantage. It's not just you. It's not all about you. Possibly women who have bloody centuries of experience on navigating this crap could help you out with some of this if you want to listen instead of lecturing them on how stupid they are to hold other views and opinions to you.

You're not interested in talking; that's clear from the 'cis' and 'terf' scattered around. You have utter disrespect for the people you're saying you need to engage with. You're merely noticing that hulking over women intimidating them has shown you in a bad light, and it's affected the sympathy of the press and the general public. Yes of course it has. Women who talk to each other and support them with the abuse that comes with being female have a phrase they often share: 'when someone shows you who he is, listen to him'.

You are not a kid who’s brain suddenly switches to adult-mode at 25. People know damn well that threatening women in a stairwell or planning to set off a smoke bomb in a crowded room is wrong. It’s is absolutely not true that these thugs are kids who do not know what they are dong is wrong

I agree. They don't expect any consequences for their actions and on the rare occasion they are called out or sanctioned they write it all off as transphobic bullying.

But we should be mindful of the dynamics here.
Yes, and to that I would also point out that Esther is a young male-born person who thought it was fine to bully, intimidate and smoke-bomb a bunch of mainly middle-aged mothers and lesbians. This is an age-old male-pattern-violence coercive dynamic that we see in cases like domestic abuse, sexual offending and the behaviour of groups like incels, frankly. In my opinion, such misogynistic instincts towards the female of the species tend to run deep and are unlikely to be deprogrammed quickly.
So, I can have respect for Esther for publically re-assessing their behaviour and writing this piece. I welcome it. However, I still do not think this comes from a place of suddenly empathising with women. Rather, they've watched the TV programme and realised they are hurting themselves and their own cause by acting like a terrorist. While motivations may not be as important as their actions subsequently (standing up for free speech is laudable), it seems likely to me that Esther still expects to "win" over women's thoughts, just using different, less inflammatory, tactics of changing our "wrong" opinions.
I don't think being young is an excuse for thinking smoke-bombing a meeting is okay. Being 20 and foolish is not an excuse for engaging in genuinely fascistic strategies to shut up women.

It's going to take more than a feebly worded blog post published within days of an extremely revealing and damning piece of film being aired for me to believe this is anything but a cynical ass-covering exercise. Self preservation may well result in a positive change, and that I will absolutely acknowledge (and hope for, that this is real and not just an attempt to minimise the damage), but I won't offer a free pass based on some trite words on a website, I'm afraid.

If anyone wants to talk to Esther on Twitter to see how genuine this stance is, there is an AMA which I linked to earlier.

I am considering the points made about making space for young people to change their minds.

But I must agree with Arran that extreme caution should be employed:

It does, however, have overtones of being in line with the plan to have a more acceptable public face, as discussed in the meeting that someone attended covertly.

Also, if my own kids had behaved this atrociously, I would be challenging them in a very robust manner indeed.

I don't think being young is an excuse for thinking smoke-bombing a meeting is okay

No, it's utterly abhorrent, criminally dangerous behaviour. But this isn't one random arsehole man who is driven to do this by a personal hatred of women. This is a person who was part of a sub culture that's been groomed to think that this is OK - righteous, even.

That this person is now speaking out publicly against this is something to be encouraged and amplified, so others still int he cult see there's a way out of this kind of thinking.

it seems likely to me that Esther still expects to "win" over women's thoughts, just using different, less inflammatory, tactics of changing our "wrong" opinions.

Well yes, I don't doubt that's what Ester is thinking. But that's what debate is all about - isn't it?

I couldn't give a toss if it's genuine or not.

What possible use is it to women to know that they if they determinedly film men dripping in male entitlement and rage, then broadcast it to the nation, and get it talked about across mainstream media, then the men might, just might, fractionally concede that women have a point about including them in their spaces??

And the absolute arrogance to believe that a brief display of 'getting caught contrition' entitles then to anything!

If Esther really believed this the language would be different. They still believe in their superiority over me.

And this ^^.

Plus if Esther wants to ask 'difficult' questions that they believe shore up their argument, come on then !

Do it. I'm all ears.

I've been thinking about this a little more.

It's none of my business how far along EB is with the transition but...it is giving me pause to think that along with different socialisation, is it possible we're seeing any impact of blockers or hormones on normal brain development (as per other threads) and this is manifesting in lack of empathy, current gaps in ethical framework etc.?

Fucked if i know sack

But im happy to go with your idea as it's probably quite correct grammatically

Esther's AMA isn't exactly buzzing. Probably because no-one believes the apology.

Wow. If that piece was honest (a big if, I know), it's a psychologically fascinating insight into the mind of a young indoctrinated cult member struggling with cognitive dissonance, and how to reconcile the competing narratives of "I'm a good (female) person" and "I did something shockingly (male) violent and aggressive"

I agree. We’ve been saying all along that one day these activists will look back and be ashamed and horrified by their actions re silencing women.

It looks like it’s already happening and that has to be a good thing.

It was interesting that she talks about being evicted because she's trans, and attacked in the street, but her activism doesn't seem to be about dealing with that. Like making sure trans people know their rights, and supporting them to take legal action. Because I think we all agree that if a landlord evicts someone for being trans, they should be taken to court.

Instead it's about going and shouting and threatening people. And she says she hadn't really looked at the other sides point of view, but how difficult is it to work out they are not actually nazis?

It's impossible to draw conclusions about a person's eviction.

One hopes that the author had /has access to good housing support.

Esther's AMA isn't exactly buzzing. Probably because no-one believes the apology.

Good questions from GirlScout27.

That this person is now speaking out publicly against this is something to be encouraged and amplified, so others still int he cult see there's a way out of this kind of thinking.

I don’t think they are out of the cult. The language is still ‘cis’ this and ‘terf’ that. It’s a change of tactics, not in ideology.

If this was an ex-Nazi who renounced violence because they thought the bad publicity hampered the cause of the ‘Aryan race’ against the ‘Zionists’ I wouldn’t welcome it.

The cognitive dissonance is still staggering.

This bit: I also hate to think that our belligerence actually cowed trans people from going to the event. The result of our behaviour was not a show of solidarity for the trans community. Rather, it was that an event was held where a highly trans-critical point of view reverberated with no to little opposition or responses from trans voices.

Miranda Yardley was not just an attendee at this event but a speaker. Miranda is of course trans. So just not the right kind of trans then Esther?

I hope this is genuine, but to me to it just smacks of kid with hand caught in cookie jar. Action sspeak louder than words Esther, your activity at the HBE event sounds encouraging so lets just see where you go from here eh?

But this isn't one random arsehole man who is driven to do this by a personal hatred of women. This is a person who was part of a sub culture that's been groomed to think that this is OK - righteous, even.

I give short shrift to the idea that this person has been passively groomed to take these steps. They've taken an active part in truly dangerous behaviour. As we all know, not all trans people even agree with trans activists - many (if not most) of them reject everything the extremist TRAs do. I'd argue that some forms of subculture and how much you engage with them are an outlet for existing tendencies, and that part of what makes trans activism so attractive for some is the license to be an outright misogynist. I don't think you just "fall into it," as then most trans people would be violently inclined TRAs - and they clearly aren't.

But that's what debate is all about - isn't it?
Yes. But in my view the gender-critical side isn't trying to forcibly change minds of the "opposing" side, merely fighting for the right to be allowed to express their own views. In other words, I think from most feminists' perspective, the debate is about having a discussion for the sake of coming to mutual understanding, and appreciating a plurality of voices, whereas it feels like Esther is still very much of the opinion that if they just say the "right" thing loud enough and in another way, they can still control what women think. This is a difference in approach, I believe. As far as I can tell, most women in the debate are quite liberal in understanding that there will be those who genuinely hold this quasi-religious conviction that "trans women are women" and those who simply believe in the sexual dimorphism of the species. Whereas most trans activists firmly believe their queer theory must win out, and that biology is bigotry.

TLDR it just seems as though Esther is changing tactics to try to dominate women, because Esther has been caught in a bad look, not because Esther has had an epiphany about the importance of free speech or the rights of women. So good for them for at least writing the piece, but I am going to be watching with extreme scepticism.

As far as I can tell, most women in the debate are quite liberal in understanding that there will be those who genuinely hold this quasi-religious conviction that "trans women are women" and those who simply believe in the sexual dimorphism of the species. Whereas most trans activists firmly believe their queer theory must win out, and that biology is bigotry.

This is very true. Because if that theory is acknowledged as lacking in any way, the entire house of cards constructed in such a flimsy way would come crashing down.

Tenets of the trans cult:

• A 5 year old knows their own gender and will not change their minds

• Someone in their twenties is not responsible for their actions because they are not mature