I was one of the transactivists on the channel 4 documentary, I regret what I did — this is why

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

medium.com/@Betsulimo/i-was-one-of-the-transactivists-on-the-channel-4-documentary-i-regret-what-i-did-this-is-why-7e12350ab6d3

Someone who was filmed trying to stop the “we need to talk” session now thinks they were wrong for attempting to shut down debate and realises that they were intimidating women

Well, I went into that thinking that it would be a young person having thought it through and trying to understand at least part of what we are saying.
But it wasn't. That was a very long article that could be summarised 'I'm sorry I got caught on camera looking like a misognist. Clearly intimidating women on its own isn't enough to make them realise why they're wrong and I'm right. We need to find another way to persuade them to believe what we tell them'.
Patronising as fuck. Nice that Esther thinks we should be allowed to speak after all though. How benevolent .

pop i agree

My son is nearly 20, wouldnt dream of doing this sort of thing and knows if they did they would get short thrift

Even the 15 year old knows its not appropriate behavior

20 year olds hold down jobs, join the military, have children...i was married at not much older

And usually 20 year olds are very 'im an adult and can make my own choices' until they want something from their parents obviously

Shrift not thrift

Yeah, I wonder whether Esther's volte-face was prompted by mummy and daddy threatening to take away their allowance.

Yes, I am cynical.

I had a baby and a mortgage at 21. I ain't got no time for man-babies or transwoman-babies.

You don't get a cookie for realising you acted like a shit. Taking months and a television broadcast to realise it looks bad when you behave like a garden variety misogynist is not even reaching the low bar. It's potentially a start.

I'm very pleased to hear that this person seems to have made steps to change. I'm pleased for them - Esther, you'll be a much better person if you allow yourself to face the shame and learn from it.

YY. I was in a violent coercive control situation at 18. Other people have had to learn the hard facts of life as young children. Esther will have to start listening to others if Esther truly wants a constructive dialogue.

Datun: And the absolute arrogance to believe that a brief display of 'getting caught contrition' entitles then to anything!

Absolutely - it smacks rather too much of the scenario we see played out over and over again on the relationships board where OP says "but he seems genuinely sorry and absolutely gutted about the situation", and everyone else says "yeah, right, of course he's sorry... sorry he got caught."

(I also agree with the point upthread - it is absolutely shameful that Esther was made homeless for being trans - this should never happen to anyone. So why isn't Esther campaigning against this genuine injustice and abuse of Esther's human rights? I'd be on board with that.)

Esther is still very much of the opinion that if they just say the "right" thing loud enough and in another way, they can still control what women think.

This.

Esther also posted Esther's article on Reddit's GenderCritical, and made this comment in response to someone there:

"I am Esther lol, the event in question was one where the audience was invited to ask difficult questions. They even invited us to the event on facebook beforehand. I still think that harsh questioning should be welcome at all events granted both sides are allowed to say their part. I recently went to a talk by Heather Bruskell-Evans and allowed her to do her talk and put up my hand to ask questions, I didn't interrupt her or shout anything out. "

How very gracious of Esther to allow Heather to speak. Does Esther want congratulations for acting like a reasonable person and not a totalitarian who intimidates women to try to shut them up?

I also wonder if Esther knows how many events have invited pro-trans speakers for discussion, only for those speakers to pull out and try to shut down the events because #nodebate.

Yes, I am cynical

As am I, I'm afraid. I think it's damage limitation more than anything heartfelt, although I do think perhaps being confronted by how it looks to an outside observer is a bit of a wakeup call.

I'd like to be wrong. But I still think Esther is busy thinking we are, just that they need to be less obviously misogynistic and violent in trying to persuade us. Transwomen aren't women, love. No GC people's view on that is going to change.

As far as I can tell, most women in the debate are quite liberal in understanding that there will be those who genuinely hold this quasi-religious conviction that "trans women are women" and those who simply believe in the sexual dimorphism of the species. Whereas most trans activists firmly believe their queer theory must win out, and that biology is bigotry.

This.

Which is why I get so annoyed by TRAs pushing the point of view that if women would only get educated enough they'd do as they were told.

Women are fighting for the right for their reality as biological women not to be erased (by men who are unhappy and dysphoric about the reality of their biology and feel 'excluded'). That's no basis to erase the biological reality of women. Women are fighting for the right to keep same sex provision for privacy, dignity and safety when undressing or receiving intimate care. How male born people feel about being excluded by this is not relevant. Women are fighting for a society in which people have the right to speak the truth (even if it is an upsetting truth), the right to believe in biology, reality, that there are only two sexes, that sex and gender are not the same thing, that transwomen are transwomen and that both those things are important to keep in public record and when deciding access to resources and spaces.

Only one side seeks to obliterate, legislate away and stamp down on the beliefs of the other, to remove freedoms, to silence dissent, to prevent society tolerating different schools of thought, to actually remove rights to dignity, privacy, safeguarding, and thereby to exclude any woman or child who does not obey. There is no way to make this any more morally right than standing intimidating women in public places to stop them meeting. The one is just an overt display of the aggression, intolerance, entitlement and misogyny of the entire set of beliefs.

The mental states of indoctrinated believers is something that has interested me for a long time. I've read a number of accounts by former fundamentalist Christians, for example, of how their thought processes worked when they were young and indoctrinated, and how they moved out of it to become atheists. Similarly, there are former Islamist militant activists who behaved in similar ways to this young person when they were young, but who have written books and articles about how they were wrong and how they moved on.

I'm not saying that is the case here - I think it's impossible to make definitive pronouncements about what's in someone's head
on the basis of a short public essay. He could well be completely disingenuous. But I've read enough about this topic to feel that a different interpretation is also possible.

Like I said, the question is of academic/personal interest to me, and it makes for an interesting pychologically-oriented discusion. I'm not entirely sure how much it matters in the real world, though: obviously it would be silly to trust this person with any important confidential info, for example. If it's possible to be wary while still keeping an open mind, that would be my stance.

Esther’s reply to this tweet by a feminist who was at the meeting is interesting:

I was at that event and tried to chat to them. They had a group mentality as the author suggests. The ones who spoke briefly to me sincerely believed that "we" hated them. They wouldn't step out from the group and talk, as individuals. It was with "us" or against us. 1/

Esther Betts
@elmskid
Especially in that context, actually stepping out of the groupthink will open you up to scrutiny from your 'comrades'. I am entirely expecting for them to try and discredit me soon, it works a bit like a cult, they will use personal information to try and blackmail you

Which is why I get so annoyed by TRAs pushing the point of view that if women would only get educated enough they'd do as they were told.

It is the most irritating thing about the whole "debate". I've informed myself about the science, the history and the philosophical theory of transgenderism. I've spoken to both GC transsexuals and genderist TRAs. I have formed the view that this is a male supremacist movement which is the greatest threat to women's rights in a century over 5/6 years of reading, debating and listening to people I agree with and people I don't, including hanging out on trans forums.

Hmm, that didnot really convey what I meant. perhaps I should have said:

If it's possible to be extremely wary of this individual and others like them, while still reserving judgment about the sincerity of their apparent struggle with cognitive dissonance.

Esther seems quite enamoured with the photo of themselves wearing a mask...

m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002488355497

Ah, now read the Twitter thread. Nuff said.

It is all about the damage to their message/mission to shut up disobedient women.

Which is why I get so annoyed by TRAs pushing the point of view that if women would only get educated enough they'd do as they were told.

That's exactly the line taken by all faith-based ideologies, though, isn't it? Creationists, climate-change deniers, anti-vax: If only you educated yourself by opening your mind and reading our links, you'd believe! It's the nature of the beast.

So, they're sorry they didn't shut the debate down.

They're sorry they were caught on camera being violent and intimidating.

They're sorry they weren't more effective.

That sounds like "Sorry, not sorry" to me.

Fiar play. it's hard to admit you're wrong. Especially when you're 20 and in a very entrenched position and just coming out of what must have been a difficult teenage period. I think it's positive that they are seeking a more civilised discourse.

After reading the piece my immediate reaction was "so what?".

Yes they may well be genuinely sorry that they were exposed on national television for intimidatory and agressive behaviour, but the narrative hasn't really changed has it?

They will still use terms like cis/terf. They still refuse to acknowledge that the "wrong" sort of members of the trans community like Miranda are entitled to a voice.

They still want to disrupt dialogue by attending these meetings "asking questions" (basically denying women the right to speak by lobbing repeated verbal grenades and shouting over them).

Nothing's changed; they still want to stop women speaking and yet they presumably expect a response to that piece of tosh from women be "ah bless all is forgiven because at the next event they won't be packing smoke bombs. wearing a mask and will have taken care to do their hair and makeup nicely whilst they try to shut us up"

I think that if the C4 programme hadn't shone a spotlight on the TRAs appalling behaviour then Esther wouldn't have written this backpedalling piece.

If it's possible to be extremely wary of this individual and others like them, while still reserving judgment about the sincerity of their apparent struggle with cognitive dissonance.

True, fair enough. It may well be the first step on a road out and may be genuine up to that point at least.

I suppose, if it's difficult for us when this isn't necessarily our entire peer group pushing these ideas, it must be doubly so when it is all your peers AND the establishment around you that you are going up against. Especially when you are young and your education has not given you any alternative frameworks. At least most of us had that.

The cynic in me says transactivists have had a regrouping and decided current efforts to replace women are not working and they are changing tact. There isn't going to be any listening or empathy. If they had this in the first place they would not have resorted to heavy handed tactics.

It must be disturbing to see yourself as others see you. Not the pleasant young transwoman in stylised , posed selfies, but as you truly are: angry, irrational, intimidating, violent, dressed in the garb of a terrorist and hate-filled. Ugly.

When intimdation and violence don't work, transgender people tend to fall on the same answer: "if you met us and listened to us, and heard about our experiences and tribulations, you would be convinced".

To that we reply: "This isn't about you, funnily enough. It's about women - what we want, what we will challenge and what we will fight for. Don't hijack our discussions to talk about yourselves. Instead, we want you to move out of our heads and spaces. Make some room for women to talk..."