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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

School in Brighton with 76 trans / gender fluid kids

100 replies

everybodypuuuuulllll · 25/11/2018 02:11

So, Dorothy Springer Secondary school in Brighton has 40 pupils that “do not identify as [the] gender presented at birth” and further 36 are gender-fluid, not identifying with their birth gender “all the time” according to the school's equality report and reported in today's Sunday Times.

How can anyone say that's not social contagion?

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/trans-groups-under-fire-for-huge-rise-in-child-referrals-2ttm8c0fr

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 26/11/2018 09:20

Is the school encouraging this or is it being in massively woke Brighton?
Seems likely a lot happening to contribute.
Important to be aware of Allsorts Youth Project and the massive influence their school toolkit has had.

From this summer, insight into the organisers of Pride Brighton:
transpridebrighton.org/archive/guidance-in-the-event-of-an-anti-trans-protest-at-trans-pride-brighton/

Issued a week before the event:

GUIDANCE – IN THE EVENT OF AN ANTI-TRANS PROTEST AT TRANS PRIDE BRIGHTON
In the light of the recent anti-trans protest at Pride in London, and the current hostile atmosphere towards transgender people in the British media, we have produced the following reference guide on how to react if such an event happens at Trans Pride 2018. We do not have any specific threat or intelligence of any protests, and indeed we do not expect an anti-trans protest, however it makes sense to prepare. (continues)

In the event of an anti-trans protest, we ask you to please observe the following key requests (an explanation of the importance of this follows):

DO NOT approach the protestors
DO NOT speak to the protestors
DO NOT look at the protestors
DO NOT throw anything at the protestors (obviously!)
DO NOT point at, or even acknowledge the existence of the protestors!
And also:

DO follow the instructions and guidance of the march stewards and security
DO consider filming the situation if you feel threatened, or feel others are being threatened
DO keep your distance from the protestors, particularly if you are a trans person – they are likely to try to attempt to provoke or make it look like you’ve approached them
We accept that some of this this may come across as extreme and tone-policing, however the anti-trans protestors have a clearly demonstrated desire to portray transgender people as violent and abusive – a characterisation we all know to be absurd, however their previous activities show this is a common tactic. They will attempt to obtain photography and video which portrays trans people (trans women and assigned-male-at-birth nonbinary people in particular) as dangerous. At previous protests they have been observed attempting to photograph people’s crotch areas, obtain upskirt images, to goad people into reacting so that they can film and edit the response. PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT!

Please remember that anything which helps them will harm the most vulnerable of our community first – trans women and transfeminine people of colour, sex workers, those who do not pass as cisgender. We have a plan for how to handle such protests which does not involve any engagement with the protestors and can be executed in a safe and peaceful manner. Your co-operation with these requests will assist us in executing the plan with minimal risk."

Fox & Owl based there:
www.youtube.com/user/tigersnack/videos
"Fox is Co-creator of kid's book Are You A Boy or Are You A Girl? Co-creator of Trans Pride Brighton. Rainbow List (2013 / 2015), set up Trans Acting course at Royal Central School of Speech & Drama, with Gendered Intelligence. Fox is patron for LGBT Switchboard. Fox & Owl are both Advisors to All About Trans."

My Genderation video of Brighton Pride 2018:
(project by Fox, Owl & Lewis Hancox who featured on Woman's Hour last week)

WPUK meeting in Brighton:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3292400-WPUK-Brighton-Meeting-Turning-the-Tide

R0wantrees · 26/11/2018 09:28

More that's based in Brighton area:
recent thread,
"Yannick Dubois is the Business Safety Manager East Sussex Fire & Rescue Service."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3371753-Last-night-the-Fire-Brigade-Union-gave-in?pg=2

Liam Hackett (Ditch the Label)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3334491-Womans-Hour-discusses-adult-bullying-with-representative-from-Ditch-The-Label-providing-expert-advice

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3299191-A-new-member-of-the-Leftie-Misogynists-club

University of Sussex:
Fox has strong links with the University of Sussex and co-chaired a trans conference event with Stephen Whittle (I think) in the Summer.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301937-Sussex-Students-Union-defames-Dr-Kathleen-Stock-Title-Edited-by-MNHQ

AspieAndProud · 26/11/2018 09:37

It makes sense that non binary individuals would choose a school where they're not going to be an outsider.

Children get to choose their schools on your planet?

R0wantrees · 26/11/2018 10:13

As an aside as I read these articles at the weekend:

2016 article by Julie Bindel for Feminist Current, 2016 includes identification of issues at University of Sussex:

'The shocking tale of John Davies, pro-prostitution academic & trafficking denier, recently jailed for fraud'
(extract)
"Davies spent many years, first as a DPhil candidate and then as a Visiting Research Fellow, at the Centre for Migration Research at the University of Sussex in England. In 2007 the University awarded Davies a doctorate. During his time at the Centre, Davies travelled the world, attending conferences, often as a speaker, presenting as an expert on trafficking.

At various times the Sussex Centre has given home to students and visiting research fellows who define trafficking simply as “facilitated migration” or argue “trafficking is a myth.” Passing through its doors have been sex industry apologists including Jo Doezema, a key campaigner for the Global Network of Sex Work Projects (NSWP), an international pro-prostitution organization that campaigns for blanket decriminalization of all aspects of the sex trade; Nicola Mai whose research on trafficking usually concludes that concern about it comes from a “moral panic;” Laura Agustín, author of Sex at the Margins: Migration, Labour Markets and the Rescue Industry, who has compared feminist abolitionists to, “those nineteenth-century middle-class women who took it upon themselves to ‘help, control, advise and discipline the unruly poor, including their sexual conduct.'”

Olsi Vullnetari, Benjamin Davies, and Julie Vullnetari were all post graduate students at the Sussex Centre. Julie Vullnetari is Davies’ former partner, and assisted him in his field research in Lyon, France. Like Davies, she holds a DPhil in Migration Studies from the University of Sussex. In his acknowledgement section, Davies thanks Vullnetari for her “outstanding work as the cultural advocate” and dedicates the book to her. Julie Vullnetari, who was once previously UNIFEM consultant on trafficking in South Asia, was arrested with Davies in Croatia in 1995 on suspicion of baby trafficking. (Only Davies was charged.) Julie is the sister of Olsi Vullnetari. Olsi, who was awarded a Master’s Degree in Migration Studies in 2004 from the Centre for Migration Research at Sussex, was also a regular speaker at international conferences about migration issues. He also ran a lucrative consultancy business writing expert court reports on behalf of Albanian asylum seekers.

John Davies and his son Benjamin, the Vullnetari siblings, Agustín, Doezema and Mai hold similar opinions about the trafficking of women into the sex trade: Trafficking (or “migrant sex work”) is often a choice that women from poor countries make in order to earn lots of money and avoid working in factories.

Like Agustín, John Davies considers anti-trafficking campaigners to be more dangerous than the actual traffickers. In 2006, Davies spoke at an academic conference in Oxford, UK, as a PhD candidate from the Sussex Centre for Migration Research at the University of Sussex. The title of his paper was “Force and Deception: the Tools of the Anti-Traffickers.”

Davies’ book based on his PhD research, “My Name is Not Natasha: How Albanian Women in France Use Trafficking to Overcome Social Exclusion (1998-2001),” was published by Amsterdam University Press in 2009. A review copy landed on my desk from the publisher, and I decided to Google him to see if any further accusations had been made about him. By pure chance, a local newspaper report came up that outlined a case against Davies that was being heard that week in court. Davies was accused of sexually abusing two girls, aged six and eight, during the years 1980–81. The trial lasted eight days at the end of which he was cleared.

An academic named Nicola (Nick) Mai had also been awarded a PhD at the Sussex Centre for Migration Research at Sussex University. The year that Davies’ book was published, and he was cleared in court, the British parliament was deciding whether to introduce a clause in the 2009, s. amendment of the the Sexual Offences Act 2003 by adding a section that would make it an offence in England and Wales to pay for the services of a person in prostitution who has been coerced into providing sexual services. Unsurprisingly, the suggestion that the state should criminalize any form of sex buying brought the polarized arguments out into the open. Mai, then a researcher at the University of North London, was completing his publicly funded research project entitled, “Migrant Workers in the UK Sex Industry” in which he concluded that very few (six per cent was his estimate) people in prostitution were trafficked or coerced into selling sex. He was a supporter of the International Union of Sex Workers (IUSW), a bogus union founded in 2000 by a couple of radical anthropologists who believed that the rights of people involved in prostitution could only be won through collective organizing. Mia had engaged members of the IUSW in his research.

The IUSW is far from the left wing, pro-worker organization its founders intended it to be. Some former members have told me that it is more of a mouthpiece for pimps and punters; and rather than warning them to “beware” as did its founders, the IUSW today welcomes sex industry bosses as members with open arms." (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2016/06/10/john-davies-pro-prostitution-academic-trafficking-denier-jailed/

Julie Bindel's book, 'The Pimping of Prostitution: Abolishing the Sex Work Myth' published 2017
www.feministcurrent.com/2017/09/27/julie-bindels-pimping-prostitution-destroys-sex-trade-myths-unforgiving-detail/

anascrecca · 26/11/2018 10:38

This worries me with regard to my children at primary school. What can I do to make sure the school staff aren't influenced or hold training /classes by mermaids /allsorts type organisation?

KingkillerKvothe · 26/11/2018 10:57

This baffles me. I grew up in Brighton and stringer was literally the roughest school going. Now it's all cool and liberal. Which is weird in itself. But I don't understand what is actually happening. Why is there so much emphasis on your 'gender'. It's just crazy and it stresses me out.

AngryAttackKittens · 26/11/2018 10:58

(Sticks fingers in ears)

There's no such thing as social contagion or trans trending and it's definitely statistically probable that this school just randomly ended up with 76 trans kids at once!

SnuggyBuggy · 26/11/2018 11:03

At the risk of sounding thick how do you socially transition to being non-binary. I mean you couldn't just live your life doing or wearing things typically associated with either sex because that wouldn't make you feel special.

AngryAttackKittens · 26/11/2018 11:05

Buy a pair of Doc Martens and a flowery dress and wear them both to school at once? Of course then someone might just think you love the 90s...

R0wantrees · 26/11/2018 11:44

This baffles me. I grew up in Brighton and stringer was literally the roughest school going. Now it's all cool and liberal. Which is weird in itself. But I don't understand what is actually happening.

If the school was regarded as 'failing' has it had a raft of changes, new senior management, advisors, academy status etc?
There are consequences of this which may well be relevant.

See discussion about the relevance that Lily Madigan's school was an academy on current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3432767-Lily-Madigan-and-the-School-Saga?pg=4

Guineapiglovers · 26/11/2018 12:11

Dorothy Stringer is one of the best schools in Brighton and Hove. It is not an academy, it has been an excellent school for many years. It is certainly not rough.

everybodypuuuuulllll · 26/11/2018 12:13

Dorothy Stringer is massively oversubscribed! It's certainly not failing.

If you're in catchment your child only has a 1 in 3 chance of getting in. (They do a lottery for places).

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 26/11/2018 12:16

Local paper 'The Argus' article today:

'Dorothy Stringer School is praised for its 'liberal vibe'
By Hsin-Yi Lo

"Dorothy Stringer School in Loder Road was praised by education magazine, Tatler, for its liberal vibe and having the "perfect balance between work and fun".

According to the school's Equality Information Report and Accessibility report, it showed 40 children - aged between 11 to 16 - who do not identify with their gender while 36 said they are gender fluid.

The headteacher Richard Bradford said: “We are very proud of the equalities and inclusion work we do in school – we are proud of our diverse community and we work hard to support the needs of every child”.

“When we support the students who do present as trans we listen to them and their parents and carers and wherever possible follow their lead.

"When a family approaches the school about a gender questioning issue we listen to their requests and support them in a way that is appropriate to the young person, family and wider school population.

"As a result of this support we are pleased that a number of trans students have successfully completed their secondary education with us."

The school is also recognised for its excellent sporting facilities and encouraging pupils to be active. Tatler magazine reported: "Pupils skip off to pastures new for sixth form - BHASVIC is a popular option, 73 per cent of them with at least five A*-C GCSEs in their pocket."
www.theargus.co.uk/news/17255829.dorothy-stringer-school-is-praised-for-its-liberal-vibe/

VickyEadie · 26/11/2018 12:18

I'd be interested in knowing how many of the children who've identified as trans/NB were in any respect identifying before they arrived at the school aged 11.

That would be something of a marker as to how much of it was school-centred social contagion.

R0wantrees · 26/11/2018 12:22

Daily Mail today by DANYAL HUSSAIN:
'Fashionable Brighton school has 40 children who do not identify with their sex at birth and another 36 are 'gender fluid'
Dorothy Stringer School in Brighton praised by Tatler magazine for a liberal vibe
Survey revealed the school has 40 children who don't identify with their gender
The school also has another 36 'gender fluid' children, aged between 11 and 16'

(extract)
A school in Brighton labelled as 'the coolest state secondary in town' has 40 children who do not identify with their sex at birth with another 36 saying they are 'gender fluid'.

Dorothy Stringer School in Brighton was previously praised by Tatler magazine for its 'liberal vibe' and for having the 'perfect balance between work and fun'.

Headteacher Richard Bradford has revealed that the figures were found in a council survey and they are the highest at any school in the country. (continues)

One Brighton charity, called Allsorts Youth Project, launched the UK's first-ever group for 'trans or gender-questioning' children aged five to 11.

Allsorts is believed to have 27 members with an average age of nine.

The group received £166,000 in public and lottery funding and runs awareness courses state secondary schools all over Brighton - including Dorothy Stringer.

And Allsorts isn't the only group to receive funding with several activists groups being supported by the public sector, the national lottery and the BBC's Children in Need.

NHS England has also signed an agreement not to suppress the expression of gender identity.

These influential groups combine with YouTube vloggers, activism and awareness classes to create, as one American academic puts it, 'rapid onset gender dysphoria'.

Lisa Littman's theory is that teenagers are turning to gender transition as a way of coping with experiences and stresses they are faced with - and they are encouraged by friends and widespread information on gender issues.

Polly Carmichael, director of the NHS gender service for children, told the Sunday Times that 'without a doubt there are some young people who are finding a community, friends and all sorts of things through joining a group who have an interest around gender. It's probably the case that [some] are caught up in something rather than it being an expression of something that has arisen from within.'

And the NHS area of Surrey, Kent and Sussex - which includes Brighton- has sent more children to the NHS gender service than the whole of Greater London combined.

A Brighton teacher said: 'What's happening is worrying and many of us know it, but nobody wants to speak up and get shot.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6426961/Fashionable-Brighton-school-40-children-not-identify-sex-birth.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6426961/Fashionable-Brighton-school-40-children-not-identify-sex-birth.html

RedToothBrush · 26/11/2018 15:22

Stonewall claim it’s 1 in 100??!! That’s insane!!

The thing I find amazing about that figure was when my sibling came out just over ten years ago, we were told by them was a one in 10,000 instance in the population of being trans! I don't recall the source but it was on leaflets my mum was pushing around at the time.

Even back then that seemed off kilter as my sibling was one of a cluster of 3. All from the same school and knew each other although they transitioned in their mid 20s. My school of 1300.

It was explained away as happening because others simply felt more confident in coming out if they knew someone else had, or because they had a good support network.

I don't know. I'm at a loss to process it all.

This being centred on Brighton, obviously raises the obvious question but at the same time it can equally be 'explained away' by the mantra of it just being due to more support.

Where will we be in ten years from now? That instance of 1 in 100? A school of 1600 (the size of Dorothy Springer Secondary) would still only have 16 trans people in it. With 40 trans people it has a rate of 1 in 40.

Imagine if 1 in 40 of the population wanted surgery. What would that do to the population? (For comparison purposes 1 in 16 of the population has diabetes)

I don't know. I just shake my head in disbelief at it all.

R0wantrees · 26/11/2018 18:02

The Sussex Tab, article by Katie Tobin

'Sussex Uni decide not to take action against Kathleen Stock over trans comments
One trans student told us they’ve chosen Brighton over Sussex for future study'
(extract)
"Following recent events at Sussex, the once welcoming, diverse, and accepting reputation towards the LGBTQ+ community that was once held by the university has been put into question.

National coverage of Kathleen Stock's interview with the Argus this summer stating "trans women are still males with male genitalia" and her recent email to every student in the philosophy department have created a hostile and unwelcoming atmosphere within the university towards trans students.

Trans students are an already marginalised group. However, members of staff, who are in a duty of care towards students, openly writing articles such as "why self-identification should not legally make you a woman" have proved extremely detrimental towards the welfare of trans students at Sussex. This appears to be all in the name of philosophical debate and academic freedom.

One student at Brighton said: "I came to Sussex hoping that's it inclusive because it's in Brighton. I identify as male and I don't want to go to a university that supports this person… I've chosen Brighton University over Sussex for further study because of this."

The conclusion of the recent HAHP forum was that ultimately, as an institution, the university cannot currently take action against Kathleen due to the academic nature of her writing and the disassociation with her own beliefs with those of the university.

However, the department of philosophy is listening to students, and is welcoming students to voice their concerns.

The Sussex Centre for Gender Studies released a statement earlier this week to show solidarity with trans students, stating: "On Transgender Day of Remembrance, we are also reflecting with sadness on the hostile atmosphere being fostered by current 'debates' around the rights of transgender people.

"These have constructed trans people as aggressors and predators, erasing the fact that they are one of the most vulnerable groups in our society.

"Such transphobic ideas in public discourse create a climate in which trans people are more likely to feel unsafe, and can also embolden others to act out their prejudices in a more open way." (continues)
thetab.com/uk/sussex/2018/11/23/sussex-uni-decide-not-to-take-action-against-kathleen-stock-over-trans-comments-31341

Hmm

Professor Kathleen Stock
twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1067096898165719040

School in Brighton with 76 trans / gender fluid kids
Carowiththegoodhair · 26/11/2018 18:04

I lived in Brighton. Unless you qualify for Cardinal Newman you go into a lottery system.

This is all about Brighton being woke.

EverardDigby · 26/11/2018 18:09

Allsorts is believed to have 27 members with an average age of nine.

Average age of nine? Bloody hell. Surely that can't be right?

OlennasWimple · 26/11/2018 18:47

Please remember that anything which helps them will harm the most vulnerable of our community first – trans women and transfeminine people of colour, sex workers, those who do not pass as cisgender.

Transwomen are the most vulnerable? Really??

KingkillerKvothe · 26/11/2018 19:36

Dorothy Stringer is one of the best schools in Brighton and Hove. It is not an academy, it has been an excellent school for many years. It is certainly not rough.

Well, it wasn't when I was at secondary school...

ConcernedForTheWorld · 28/11/2018 12:17

Anyone and everyone associated with this school should be arrested and placed on a register...this is unacceptable...in fact I would go as far as to say child abuse
As most of us have children we all know that kids are in no position to make decisions like this at such a young age. What is wrong with just letting kids just be

R0wantrees · 16/12/2018 13:18

More from Brighton, Mail on Sunday:

'Eight-year-old pupils to be told 'boys can have periods too' under new sex education lessons guidelines
Children will be told that 'all genders' can have periods under new guidelines

Brighton & Hove City Council issued the guidelines which have faced criticism
Guidance states: 'Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods'

(extract)

"The teacher guidance, from Brighton & Hove City Council, states: ‘Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods.’ It says language about menstruation must be inclusive of ‘all genders’ and orders that ‘bins for used period products are provided in all toilets’ for children."

Stephanie Davies-Arai, from the campaign group Transgender Trend, said: ‘Girls going through puberty are already having a difficult time. What they should be given is clear language to be able to talk about their bodies and their female biological functions without couching it in politically correct terms.’

And feminist campaigner Julie Bindel said: ‘To tell impressionable children that boys can also menstruate sidelines girls who should be getting support when they start their periods.’ (continues)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6500231/Eight-year-old-pupils-told-boys-periods-new-sex-education-guidelines.html

VickyEadie · 16/12/2018 13:34

"The teacher guidance, from Brighton & Hove City Council, states: ‘Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods.’ It says language about menstruation must be inclusive of ‘all genders’ and orders that ‘bins for used period products are provided in all toilets’ for children."

WTF.

Iused2BanOptimist · 16/12/2018 16:30

Shouldn't biology teachers everywhere rise up in protest? I have often been amazed at the ignorance people have about their bodies. Now they are being taught basic biological untruths and lies. It's a national disgrace.