School in Brighton with 76 trans / gender fluid kids

[everybodypuuuuulllll]

So, Dorothy Springer Secondary school in Brighton has 40 pupils that “do not identify as [the] gender presented at birth” and further 36 are gender-fluid, not identifying with their birth gender “all the time” according to the school's equality report and reported in today's Sunday Times.

How can anyone say that's not social contagion?

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/trans-groups-under-fire-for-huge-rise-in-child-referrals-2ttm8c0fr

This is just taking the piss now. When is someone actually going to take responsibility and put an end to this shit?

This is just plain silly. I personally hope the 36 gender-fluid ones are just taking the piss.

Someone should have noticed by now that it is absolutely ridiculous.

'We believe that it’s important for all genders to be able to learn and talk about menstruation together…'

Does this mean that girls no longer get space away from boys to have 'the period talk' and be able to ask questions?

Does this mean that girls no longer get space away from boys to have 'the period talk' and be able to ask questions?

Girls - one by one, your rights to privacy and boundaries are being entirely erased.

I'm a social worker in Brighton.
I can assure you that at the moment we are not overrun with trans kids coming to our attention. This could be because trans kids don't tend to have other social or family issues that would meet our threshold but I don't think so. I think the kids who ID as trans aren't actually getting referrals to gender clinics or doing very much in the way of being trans at all other than maybe a name change and a blue hair dye.
In other words, it's a fad, and it will pass. You might think Brighton social services were a hotbed of koolaid drinkers and whilst we do have allsorts delivering trans awareness training 🤮 most social workers are common sense, or secretly gender critical, or completely ignorant of the whole shitshow. Someone was explaining non binary to a very old school lesbian manager the other day who clearly thought it was a load of shit.

Also Dorothy stringer seems like a regular, fairly decent secondary school to me. I think this is fairly overblown.

NotANotMan

Did you see this recent thread (there's a link on it to an earlier one which more SWs need to be aware of)?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3448221-Recommendation-that-Butterfly-used-as-training-material-for-social-workers

Notaman, just out of interest, what trans issues would meet your threshold and how would they be brought to SS's attention?

Given the potential for future harm I'm amazed that SS aren't all over puberty blockers, the transing of young children etc. I know nothing about social work though.

Thanks Rowan

Dragon, we have to follow accepted research and local knowledge. If accepted research is the allsorts model (which it is, pretty much everywhere) and a child is being prescribed lupron by a GP it wouldn't be a social services issue.
We might get involved if a child was very distressed, running away, school refusing etc and there were gender issues involved. However the primary issue would be the risk, not the gender issue.

Thanks NotAMan. That's interesting and disheartening.

I kind of assumed that SS would be empowered to intervene, or at least monitor, in situations where a child is funnelled into permanently life changing choices by adults.

Not at all. Our remit it clear and legally defined. Prevailing 'wisdom' is that children can be trans, that social transition is harmless and drugs can be prescribed by doctors.

I kind of assumed that SS would be empowered to intervene, or at least monitor, in situations where a child is funnelled into permanently life changing choices by adults.

Not if doing exactly that is what has been officialy declared the right course of action.

I mean, we wouldn't be here discussing this if no one in charge ever bowed to the demands of transactivists.

Does this mean that girls no longer get space away from boys to have 'the period talk' and be able to ask questions?

Hey, they said all genders, not all sexes. Perhaps they just meant all the genders who have a body that is likely to ever have a period.

... or not.

Perhaps it will improve boys knowledge about menstruation and do away with silly beliefs like the one that women could just "hold it in" and go to the toilet to have their period.

Does this mean that girls no longer get space away from boys to have 'the period talk' and be able to ask questions?

It isn't necessarily a bad thing that boys and girls get the period talk together. For asking questions it might be sensible that at the end of sex education (on all topics) boys and girls are given the opportunity to submit anonymous written questions on any topic which are answered in a sweep up session.

I'm very much against perpetuating the idea that periods can't be talked about in front of boys and men.

I'm very much for girls having an opportunity to learn about periods and how to manage them, and being able to ask all the painfully embarrassing questions they need, in an all female space.

Mixed sex sessions are a great idea too, but as well as, not instead of.

For asking questions it might be sensible that at the end of sex education (on all topics) boys and girls are given the opportunity to submit anonymous written questions on any topic which are answered in a sweep up session.

Friends of mine who teach do this, its very successful.
Works for both the pupils and the teachers.

I'm very much for girls having an opportunity to learn about periods and how to manage them, and being able to ask all the painfully embarrassing questions they need, in an all female space

I disagree with this. I would support without question an individual girl (or any pupil for that matter) having the opportunity to have a one on one session with the school nurse or female guidance teacher on any subject- without any peers being present.

I do not support anything which gives life to the idea there is some sort of mystique to periods which only girls and women should know about or that girls and women can only talk about periods with other girls.

I want no one ever saying "but someone might hear me unwrapping a tampon".

I want no one ever saying "but someone might hear me overwrapping a tampon"
Well, that would have been during my menstruation years. Who are you to deny me privacy?

You are missing my point. What I want to get away from is the idea that unwrapping a tampon is even a thing. I want to get away from the mindset that puts periods into the category of some shameful secret that can't be talked about to the extent that heaven forfend someone might hear the rustle of a tampon wrapper.

I am not denying you your privacy. What I want to get to is the idea that unwrapping a tampon is no different from unwrapping a tissue or an unladdered pair of tights. I'm not suggesting you (general you) change your tights or your tampon in public- I'm suggesting you (general you) might try thinking that actually there is nothing to hide or be embarrassed about whether it is a tampon wrapper or a tights wrapper.

My DD's school had 8 (14-18 school with 2000 students) I'm not sure contagion comes into it, you could never persuade my DD's they are anything they are not, teens are pretty stubborn!

Anonymous written questions are fine as far as they go but that setup kind of reinforces the idea that there's something a bit shameful about discussing periods. what if girls would like to have more of an open discussion?

I agree in principle that there should be nothing embarrassing about periods but we're talking about pre-pubescent girls. EVERYTHING is embarrassing at that age. Let's start where they are.

Never mind 'what if someone hears me unwrapping a tampon?' what about 'what do I do if I leak all over my chair?'

Boys equally should have the opportunity for space away from girls to discuss their changing bodies.

Puberty should also be discussed in mixed groups so we all grow up knowing what the other sex deals with but I see no good reason to get rid of single sex discussions and lots of good reasons for keeping them.

Anonymous written questions are fine as far as they go but that setup kind of reinforces the idea that there's something a bit shameful about discussing periods. what if girls would like to have more of an open discussion?

The idea of the questions is it would be on any subject boys and girls wanted to ask but didn't want to put their hands up in front of the whole class.

We will have to disagree but I think herding the girls off on their own is harmful.

Puberty should also be discussed in mixed groups so we all grow up knowing what the other sex deals with but I see no good reason to get rid of single sex discussions and lots of good reasons for keeping them

My school in the 70s had no single sex sessions or discussions.

I don't recall my school segregating the sexes for learning about periods.
But I probably don't count, as it never even occurred to me to be ashamed of my period.
It is not something personal. All women have it. It is about as embarrassing to ask about as the workings of the human stomach, in my opinion.

The only thing boys should leave the room for (and I think it should be the boys who need to leave) is a discussion on how to insert tampons and moon cups and the like.

For that, I am of the opinion sex segregation should be done (and a female teacher provided, if necessary) and those things ought to be taught, because there's girls whose mothers aren't willing or able to explain it.
(Me, for example, I'd be very willing to explain stuff, but just am more comfortable with pads, so would only be able to give very general advice.)

Marguerita it is about privacy though. I always considered what was going on in my uterus my own personal business, and so no I didn't want random boys to know when I was on my period or changing my tampon, thank you very much.

But I probably don't count, as it never even occurred to me to be ashamed of my period
It is not something personal. All women have it. It is about as embarrassing to ask about as the workings of the human stomach, in my opinion.

The only thing boys should leave the room for (and I think it should be the boys who need to leave) is a discussion on how to insert tampons and moon cups and the like

I agree with all of this. That is what schools should be promoting.

it is about privacy though. I always considered what was going on in my uterus my own personal business, and so no I didn't want random boys to know when I was on my period or changing my tampon, thank you very much

I wasn't suggesting you should announce it to them any more than you would announce any other excretory function. I'm suggesting periods should be treated as being as ordinary and unremarkable as any other function. No need to broadcast but absolutely no need to hide or pretend they don't happen.

The only thing boys should leave the room for (and I think it should be the boys who need to leave) is a discussion on how to insert tampons and moon cups and the like.

For that, I am of the opinion sex segregation should be done (and a female teacher provided, if necessary) and those things ought to be taught, because there's girls whose mothers aren't willing or able to explain it.

Yes, this is what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear.