School in Brighton with 76 trans / gender fluid kids

[everybodypuuuuulllll]

So, Dorothy Springer Secondary school in Brighton has 40 pupils that “do not identify as [the] gender presented at birth” and further 36 are gender-fluid, not identifying with their birth gender “all the time” according to the school's equality report and reported in today's Sunday Times.

How can anyone say that's not social contagion?

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/trans-groups-under-fire-for-huge-rise-in-child-referrals-2ttm8c0fr

I suppose that if you're a young person and you listen to and internalise the trans ideology - you're going to realise that you aren't Barbie or GI Joe. Except instead of concluding that this gender stuff is bollocks, you assume that everyone else around you must have an internal identity which conforms to gender stereotypes - but you are different and special!

No wonder the figures are so high. What teenage girl would want to be 'cis'?

Agree with @WomanOfTime

There are some really aggressive gender stereotypes around at the moment - and these seem to be really pushed at children while at school (by other children and parents).

It isn't surprising that many are opting to go for something that appears superficially to be more accepting and allows them a little more choice.

In reality, it is not really offering much choice because they may be choosing the other gender merely because the 'stereotype ' appears a bit closer to how they behave or avoids some specific problems they have been having.

Do we need some sort of movement that allows children to understand that they have choice in how they dress and behave and aren't bound by gender stereotypes. But this doesn't have to involve trying to change gender. And doesn't have to involve trying to change sex.

Definitely, woollyheart. I used to teach preschool and had a group of 3-year-old boys telling a little girl that she wasn't allowed to wear her Spiderman socks or pretend to be Spiderman at playtime because it was only for boys. I'm sure it wasn't that bad when I was younger.

You're right that some choose the opposite set of stereotypes because they seem to fit a little better, but there's also the rise of this non-binary, gender-fluid stuff, where the logic seems to be 'because I like a mixture of 'boy' and 'girl' things I must actually be somewhere in-between.' Instead of, you know, being a normal human being with a personality, instead of a gendered caricature.

Exactly! Just because I sometimes knit and sometimes enjoy constructing engineering spreadsheets does not make me gender fluid or on a gender spectrum.

They are both things that a person might enjoy. Or not!

I'm not stereotypically feminine all the time. Does that make me gender fluid? Or a biological human female who is quite happy in herself?

Trans as part of gender dysphoria I get and support those in a minority getting support and treatment including reassignment surgery etc.
Gender fluid seems like woke middle class kids trying to play marginalised top trumps.

Me and my siblings went to Dorothy Stringer 10 years ago. It did not always used to be so liberal, believe me!

Just shows the state of the times really.

The point about testosterone and autism I believe is confusing cause and effect. Female presentation is usually very different to male presentation in the people who have the ability to mostly function in mainstream settings. This has had a great deal of attention lately. One of the studies and I will try to dig it out identifies that autistic girls social abilities and directly comparable to neurotypical boys. The difference which hurts the autistic girls is the societal expectations on female children and adults within society.

With that in mind I would suggest that it’s not the giving of a male hormone, but the viewing of the autistic girl as male which results in greater acceptance of the individual.

It's great to see that this is getting media attention. It's the scandal of our time, and the sooner a huge bright light is shone on it the better.

I wonder what the rate of trans kids is, in the other places highlighted on this map. The map shows people who've signed the petition asking the government to review its policy on transwomen in women's prisons.

So it's also seems to be a map of where transactivists are particularly active, very approximately. It seems where they're most active, people are most aware of the issues so more people are GC.

Could someone find out how many trans kids are in schools in those areas by FOI request I wonder?

petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=228767

Wasn't Brighton & Hove the council that put together the first Trans Inclusion at School Kit with Allsorts?

This may mean that pro-trans affirming services, training and policies are more developed in the Sussex area than elsewhere in the country.

A self-fulfilling phophecy? The creation of a false 'market'?

Let's hope that Brighton & Hove will be as quick to fund and examine the impact of its trans-affirming strategy on the mental health of its young people, and the subsequent need for de-transitioning support services.

Prior to Brighton & Hove becoming a unitary authority it was part of East Sussex. The two councils still have links in some areas. East Sussex also uses the Allsorts/B&H guidelines for schools. I believe that the same advice has spread to several other LEAs.

AgainReally Right, because these kids are only socially transitioning. I think this is hard for me to get my head around as a kid of the 70's who was one of the lads and often misgendered as a boy.

The need to change pronouns and actually be seen as the opposite gender in order to feel accepted for who you are seems very alien.

We are fairly near Brighton and I’m finding myself more and more relieved that DD decided to stay home educated for the moment (she’s year 7). She’s autistic and in some ways not gender conforming, and that coupled with the fact she is naive and trusting just makes me shudder. Thankfully it is not remotely on her radar.

The HE scene certainly has its fair share of wokeness of course and a couple in the wider community are transing their young kids, but I don’t know them personally. Although I know enough about them from mutual friends etc to not have been remotely surprised when I heard.

This would be hilarious if it was just a story.
This en masse hysteria will be looked at and analysed in the future.
I expect it is a combination of religion, sexist male and female stereotypes and allowed children to watch unsupervised shit on you tube.
Who knows but the nhs will have to shell out for counselling when many of them grow out of it.
It makes a mockery of people with gender dysphoria.

The whole gender fluid thing just fascinated me. Is it that they weren’t given enough opportunity to dress up as kids? (semi serious question)

Stonewall claim it’s 1 in 100??!! That’s insane!!

To me this is the same as competitive cutting, drug/drink abuse and eating disorders in teens.

Being a teen is a confusing time, you don't know who you are and how you fit in the world. You are looking for answers and looking for your place. If a friend starts cutting, or starving themselves, or identify as trans, others start to follow to see if they can find some answers and some security too.

I suppose the difference is that with eating disorders and self harm, the girls arn't encouraged and don't get praise for their behaviour, the copy cat girls usually don't take things too far and lose interest before it becomes a major issue. But with trans they are encouraged and put on drugs that will set them on a path they may not be able to get off.

To be fair, I wouldn't trust any of Stonewall's numbers.

It makes sense that non binary individuals would choose a school where they're not going to be an outsider.

Brighton - home of the Green Party

Quelle surprise

purpleova I think it’s pretty much because the social communication expectations on boys is so different from what is expected from girls. It’s the part of autism that particularly in teen years is incredibly complex and stressful for girls.

To have the expectations lowered to what is expected from boys due to renaming and presenting as male must reduce the anxiety.

I admit it’s a theory, but as an autistic woman who has always worked in nearly all male teams - I am very aware of my communication and moving from that to environments that are mostly female takes much more effort.

That's actually about right for a school that size.

It makes sense that non binary individuals would choose a school where they're not going to be an outsider
There are adults and teens up and down the country who don't play stereotypes every day.
We aren't non binary and we aren't a minority.
We're just... ... us. Plain old human beings with likes and dislikes that aren't pre-programmed into us by our genitals or our brains.
There isn't such thing as boy hobbies and girl hobbies, boy interests and girl interests. There are hobbies and interests which may be liked by boys or girls. Sadly society likes to socialise people into believing that their daughter needs a pink dolly whilst their son will enjoy trains.

It makes sense that non binary individuals would choose a school where they're not going to be an outsider

Nope. Dorothy Stringer is massively over subscribed (as are other popular Brighton schools). If you're in catchment, places are awarded through a lottery system and about 3 times as many kids apply as get places.

So no, this is not about self selection.

What's going on at the school, does anyone know? Is the school encouraging this or is it being in massively woke Brighton?

Answer: Allsorts Youth Project