Lily Madigan and the School Saga

[dillydallyXX]

Lily Madigan has been self-praising again, with more details about how they "sued" their school.

They hired a "team of solicitors", to "advice" Lily and the "principle" gave in on all their "demands".

The truth is slightly different.

Lily arrived at school wearing basically a boob tube. They were sent home because it was against uniform policy. Any girl wearing that for school would have been asked to change or go home. It's clear Lily was looking for a reason to kick things off.

Lily was not "made to wear a man's suit". They were asked to adhere to the school uniform - like any pupil. The girls wear a blazer too and can wear a skirt or trousers; many girls choose to wear trousers and the blazer.

Lily organised a petition. It was an ONLINE petition, quite different to a paper one. The support Lily claimed she had is very difficult to prove.

The school's staff tried very hard to placate Lily. They had meetings with their mother, the pastoral care team, etc - and got nowhere. It apparently caused distress to Lily's younger sister who was at school.

Lily contacted a solicitor in London. Because of the Equality Act the school did have to cater to transgender pupils - and when the school was informed of their obligations they changed their policy in accordance to the Act.

There was no suing of the school. There was no legal action, certainly no "legal battle", as Lily repeatedly claims.

There was no victimisation of Lily. Afterwards, the school said they had tried very hard for Lily and their words and actions had been deliberately twisted.

And now Lily still says that "they won", they "got it all", and that they did all this behind their parents' backs, and then "embarked on a media tour".

Lily's parents knew about it all, right from the day Lily was sent home.

Well said! @DisrespectfulAdultFemale

I note that these trans people just talk about their feelings, their hurt feelings about the wrong use of pronouns or the perceived slightest of slights, but never ever about the real problems that women face.

As a general rule I don't want to hurt people's feelings. Some people lose the assumption of courtesy by being a knob and particularly being a criminal shithole (I notice that TRAs are not complaining about the "misgendering" of Ian Huntley, for example....)

People who behave as reprehensibly as LM has done time and time again should be called out on it, and accept that one consequence of their behaviour is that they will lose the courtesies afforded to others.

Comments about people's appearance are generally unwarranted unless that individual has brought their appearance into discussion themselves. Arguably LM has done this, with the repeated references to "I'm so cute" and posting pictures of themselves "rocking it". (Let's not dwell on the photos of them in their underwear )

The only thing I will say is that LM is scarily thin, and has posted previously about their habit of "forgetting to eat some days". And now they seem to be prone to fainting fits - also a symptom of not eating properly. I hope that in RL there is someone looking out for their health - I wish that they hurry up and stage an intervention, though

OlennasWimple

The "cute" comments always make me snicker. Back in my teens cute was an euphemism for ugly but interesting.

I don't give a shit if you feel I'm 'churlish' nor do I care about currying favour from people who are trying to compel me to lie

Well put. When they start worrying about my feelings and discomfort then I will return the favour.

And before anyone comes in wrapping themselves in virtue-signalling about how they will extend this courtesy even if they don't receive it, I say "well, bully for you. I gave an inch and TRAs and their allies took a mile. No more."

But just "he-ing" LM and others seems churlish, especially taken to extremes; when people refer to bearded and balding Prof Whittle as " she", they are making a point that alienates potential support, I believe.

I find the suggestions that women and girls can have penises, and that lesbian relationships can involve penises, to be extremely churlish.

but going to what @sorenipples said: I totally agree with her, that we should not speculate unduly about Lily's personal life and cast false aspersions, and that her relationships so far have been age-appropriate.

But , it is crystal clear Lily is a manipulative, devious person. If I had a daughter who had just gone up to uni and was a lesbian, I'd think - well ok, I hope she is happy. But if she then starting dating a "transwoman" who had had no hormone treatment and had male genitalia, and was calling themselves a lesbian, and my daughter was saying "Well, transwomen are women, and we are in a lesbian relationship", I would worry, whether she was over 18 or not.

As @EmpressAdultHumanFemale has just said, we are not being told lesbian relationships involve penises. No!

Kay2 re misgendering

But just "he-ing" LM and others seems churlish …

GC advocates needs to persuade potential allies that ‘misgendering’ is not churlish, not disrespectful, not hate-speech. It is simply honest.

In my previous post I acknowledged that although the consistent use of honest pronouns might, as you claimed, initially come as a shock to potential female allies, it would clarify in their minds the reality of what the transgender issue is about: namely, men taking over women’s roles, spaces and institutions.

I would add that the consistent use of honest pronouns might clarify the reality of the transgender issue in the minds of potential male allies. Newspaper reports of the trans controversy are often read and dismissed by some men as an amusing spat between different groups of feminists, simply because all the participants are referred to as ‘she’. Is it over-optimistic to think think that those men might react more positively if they recognized that these were disputes between women and men
claiming to be women?

… especially taken to extremes; when people refer to bearded and balding Prof Whittle as " she", they are making a point that alienates potential support, I believe.

I wouldn’t worry about how I referred to Prof Whittle, who of course is not “a man taking over women’s roles, spaces and institutions”!

I don't give a shit if you feel I'm 'churlish' nor do I care about currying favour from people who are trying to compel me to lie

Indeed. It's not a fucking centrist, reasonable point: it's the same old policing of women's speech. I do not respond well to this. Nor bloody well should I.

Besides, it's got fuck all to do with MN. We get deleted for correctly sexing misgendering as it's against the rules.

As it happens, I don't much care about pronouns. I think any appropriation of the word woman far worse. Whether we have a bloody space or not. But I'll not have my speech compelled so I have to include pronouns in my disobedience.

Anyone find that insufficiently nice and/or churlish? Couldn't give a single, shiny shit.

I won't use sex-incorrect pronouns. I'll use the person's full name or initials.

Lil has been telling feminists to go and fuck themselves again on twitter, if that's relevant

No, we wouldn't want to let men take away our opportunities.

goady fucker

i really wish the world would just ignore Lily Madigan

that would drive Lily nuts, while also giving Lily the chance to sort Lily's life out

Lily might acquaint herself with the BUCS transgender policy:

Members are encouraged to consider the four points below where making a decision regarding transgender students’ participation in recreational or competitive sport at their university:

1. If you think that a student is transgender, or are made aware that they are, does it matter?
2. Do you absolutely feel that there is a concern/issue of unfair advantage or safety as a result of a transgender students’ participation?
3. Can you observe that dangerous situations are occurring on the field of play and do you genuinely fear that a student participating may be hurt?
4. Does this student have more physical capacity than is possible for any cisgender student of their gender, considering the potential impact of intensive training for cis/trans student athletes?

Cis, in case Lily does not know, is defined as:

Cisgender - A term used by some to describe people who are not transgender, i.e. identify as the same gender they were assigned at birth

Lily might be lucky. I don't think she would be perceived as a physical threat.

"because men will". Oh, the irony!

'Does this student have more physical capacity than is possible for any cisgender student of their gender?'

That's quite a high bar, surely? It means you would have to demonstrate that a random male student could outcompete a female Olympic athlete or world record-holder of the same age.

I suppose at least they've said you need to compare with 'cisgender' athletes, not transgender male record-setters.

Regarding lily and sport, I'm inclined to think it will do lily good! As long as she eats properly whilst doing it! and doesn't start till the doctors have found out why she passes out for no reason...
Lily is one transwomen I can't ever see beating any athletic female. She looks too frail!

It's just the latest thing Lily has latched onto.

Michelle Obama was in the news talking about how she felt imposter syndrome. So, Lily has it.

Women's sport is talked about this week because of the Ballon d'or. So, Lily now talks about it.

Lily is a narcissist who needs constant attention. Lily is also an agitator who delights in provoking people.

*As long as she eats properly whilst doing it! and doesn't start till the doctors have found out why she passes out for no reason...8

That's what I was thinking... it doesn't sound like LM's in any condition for hard exercise at the moment.

Lily needs nourishment. A big sirloin steak. That'll put hairs on her chest.

Okay, the imposter syndrome one actually makes me angry!

I spend so much time trying to drill it into you professional women's heads that they are in their careers and successful for a reason. And yet, as a female executive, when asked what I do I still have to fight the urge to respond "mostly just odd jobs that need doing around the firm; I've been lucky to have some of the most generous backers during my career". I've literally just spent the afternoon with a female CEO of a large company who told me she feels just the same over coffee.

I'm not saying no men at all can have imposter syndrome. I'm sure they exist - in fact, I know at least one. But it's endemic in professionally successful women to an extent that, IMO, can really only be explained by female socialisation.

So, no, Lily. You don't get to claim the 'uncertain of myself because I'm a woman' card after you've repeatedly been sufficiently certain of yourself to demand women get kicked out of their positions in line with your own preferences and have at times succeeded. You just don't get to.

If you feel like an imposter, it might be because you're literally appropriating other people's experiences.

Imposter syndrome

Impostor syndrome (also known as impostor phenomenon, impostorism, fraud syndrome or the impostor experience) is a psychological pattern in which an individual doubts their accomplishments and has a persistent internalized fear of being exposed as a "fraud".

You can't suffer from imposter syndrome if you are actually a fraud and it's not merely an internalised fear.

FWIW I think men suffer from it more than we realise, but are conditioned not to admit it. I suspect this inability to express the feeling could actually be part of why you have male suicide patterns; is there much research in this area?

DH is highly successful. He is exceptional at his job. He has expressed feeling imposter syndrome to me, though he hasn't called it by name. More that he feels exposed, and as if someone will expose him as not being as good as his reputation.

Kat - my 14yo DS is a strong bean, roughly the same height as me and now stronger than me

*string bean! (What a confusing typo!)

You can't suffer from imposter syndrome if you are actually a fraud and it's not merely an internalised fear.

That's what I thought.

Lily needs nourishment. A big sirloin steak. That'll put hairs on her chest.

Saw some tweets earlier which suggest that Lily is trying to become vegetarian but had an early hitch when Lily was served a meat sandwich on a plane.