Jordan Peterson thinks women who wear makeup and complain about sexual harrassment are hypocrites

[fizzthecat1]

Jordan Peterson has done an interview saying women who wear makeup are inviting sexual harassment as it's "sexually provocative". So basically telling his male audience that they are free to sexually harrass women and they're basically asking for it because of something as innocent as makeup. I just can't with this man. He is so dangerous to society.

www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2018/06/04/jordan-peterson-fully-in-context-and-incredibly-sexist/

Here's his quote from the interview:

Peterson: Here’s a rule. How about no makeup in the workplace?

Vice: Why should that be a rule?

Peterson: Why should you wear makeup in the workplace? Isn’t that sexually provocative?

Vice: No

Peterson: It’s not?

Vice: No

Peterson: Well what is it then? What’s the purpose of makeup?

Vice: (unclear) like to just put on makeup, just to…

Peterson: Why? Why do you make your lips red? Because they turn red during sexual arousal. That’s why. Why do you put rouge on your cheeks? Same reason. How about high heels? They’re there to exaggerate sexual attractiveness. That’s what high heels do. Now, I’m not saying people shouldn’t use sexual displays in the workplace, I’m not saying that. But I am saying that that is what they’re doing, and that IS what they’re doing.

Vice: Do you feel like a serious woman who doesn’t want sexual harassment in the workplace, do you feel like if she wears makeup in the workplace, is being somewhat hypocritical?

Jordan Peterson: Yeah. I do think that.

I do wear make up every day and the older I get the less comfortable I am with my motivations.

I was recently talking to a male relative who is heading down the transgender tunnel and has started wearing make up.

I asked him why he was wearing make up and the question was promptly turned on me.

I started wearing make up as a teenager because looking attractive was literally the only power i thought I could have.
I could write alot about it but I feel that as a woman being attractive ( note artificially attractive) is a kind of power and control.

Obviously it is a total fake power, a fools gold as the 'power' is being handed out to you is by other people's assessment of you. The power is not real, it is approval of your decision to conform and accept men's rating of you.

I could write much more of my thoughts on this but suffice it to say, I really don't think he has understood any of the conditioning that girls go through.

I started wearing make up as a teenager because looking attractive was literally the only power i thought I could have
I could write alot about it but I feel that as a woman being attractive ( note artificially attractive) is a kind of power and control

I don't agree this is why most people wear makeup. For me I feel like as women we are socialised to believe that we are ugly without makeup by society / the beauty industry from a very young age and therefore need it to be acceptable.

I have bad skin and if I showed up to my professional job where I am meeting people without any makeup on then it would not be looked a favourably. I also have bad skin and use foundation to cover it up, how is that "sexual"?

I think it's just become like uniform for most women because of societal trends. You'd very rarely turn on the TV or even go outside and see many women without makeup on.

I don't agree with Petersen on everything (most things, actually) - but few of these responses really question WHY we wear make-up. I mean truly - what is our motivation?

None of us are inviting harassment, of course (and Petersen is dead wrong on that point). But we are making ourselves more attractive for a reason...

it might be confidence, it might be to attract a mate, it might be because we think we should. I don't think that very many of us wear make up simply because we want to. That doesn't answer the underlying question of what motivated us in the first place. It didn't happen in a vacuum.

Petersen has a bad habit of taking his point to a controversial end - when he makes a decent point to start with. We should all question "why".

As weebisom said, does he not realise that some workplaces require women to wear makeup?

Making yourself look attractive it's just making yourself look nice, wearing things that flatter you, dressing in a way that is appropriate to the situation according to current social norms etc
Men do it too

None of us are inviting harassment, of course (and Petersen is dead wrong on that point). But we are making ourselves more attractive for a reason

It's because society / beauty industry teaches girls from a v young age that they are ugly and therefore unacceptable without makeup on. Imagine if a TV personality went on TV without makeup and with bad skin, she'd probably be ripped to shreads. It's just the world we live in.

I've worked in a team of only women and didn't once turn up to work without makeup as I would be mortified if I had my bad skin on display. So it was not to appeal to men and Peterson saying this is very dangerous. It's the equivilant of "she was wearing a short skirt therefore asking for it" but with something as innocent as makeup.

Decorating yourself embellishing your appearance these are things that happen in all human cultures, humans like to innovate express themselves etc

fizzthecat

I think we may be making the same sort of point in a different way. My next paragraph talks about the power being an illusion.

I agree it is a uniform, that marks you as someone who conforms ( the very point of a uniform).

I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I have been thinking about this alot. I am uncomfortable that my daughter's see me applying make up before leaving the house whilst telling them they are perfect as they are, don't need approval etc.

I discussed this with my friend who I respect very much. She believes she wears make up for herself and it is a kind of art form.
I just think if you look at the motivations behind the act ( especially for women that do not go to the corner shop without make up) then it isn't really a pleasure it's another job you must complete. And the question is, why?

Ha! Cross post rememberatime

I gave up conforming many years ago. Once I discovered I look better without make-up, I stopped wearing it and have spent the rest of my life being jealous of women who can.

But women who don't wear makeup are trans according to today's ideology

I think most women wear make up so that they can blend in, not stand out.
Saying we're painting our faces to attract sexual attention is undiluted misogyny at it's finest.
He's clearly not met many menopausal women like me, who are simply trying not to scare the fucking horses.
I have visions of those massive, red, swollen, puffed-up butts that monkeys caper around with when they're signalling that they're ripe for a mate. Hardly doing that are we.
He's so far out there on this one. As said upthread, it's more fodder for his grim incel fanbase.

I see make up, especially in the context of the beauty industry of today as a big part of the patriarchy. So to play along with that, whilst simultaneously complaining about the patriarchy seems hypocritical to me.

I think that is the point JP was badly making.

I didn't watch it though so might be missing the tone and context.

Make up is surely a way of enhancing any “good “ features and covering up any features we may perceive as bad, or embarrassing like spots or acne, make up can improve confidence and well being, why the fuck does it always have to end up about men and their perceived ideas? He is a fucking arse!

He's turned into the leader of the incels. It's quite horrific.

Men really do think it’s all about them. I‘ve loved makeup since I was a little girl. I love the colours and textures and the different effects you can achieve. I don’t mind not wearing it and often go to the shops or for a walk bare faced, but I definitely look better with it (very pale, barely there eyebrows) and wear light makeup for work, and clart it on in my free time. The last thing I want is to sexually attract males. I have a perfectly nice DP already, thanks, further male attention neither wanted nor needed.

"Why do you make your lips red and out rouge on your cheeks? Because that's how they go during intercourse"

This might be news to him, but not everyone makes their cheeks red/pink, and not everyone wears red lipstick 😂 What about the women who have purple or even nude lips!? What about black eyeliner, how does that relate to sex? What a dumb man.

Janie143
But women who don't wear makeup are trans according to today's ideology

Spot on. 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't' is part of the abusers toolkit.

I don't wear make up for the same reason I don't do ironing, I'm too fucking lazy. But I still feel the need to shave my legs and armpits. My pits stink if I don't no matter how much I shower. The legs has to be some kind of social conditioning because if I don't I feel that I look a gorilla. They do get very hairy. But nobody has the right to make any judgements of anyone else for what is basically just choices in what they feel comfortable with in regards to their appearance. Especially since a lot of those choices will have been promoted strongly by the society we live in that then decides to cast it's critical eye.

Isn’t he just saying this sort of stuff to provoke reaction. But like Katie Hopkins.

The whole red lips thing is borrowed from Desmond Morris’s Naked Ape 40 or 50 years ago. It was bad science then - anyone who believes that shit now is just embarrassing themselves.

He is horrific and so so anti-feminist. Yet many people on here defend him. Seriously- he is saying that you are asking for it by wearing makeup. He is laughing at the women who worship him.

It's classic when so many women are under pressure to wear make up to conform to society's expectations of female looks. Classic of a patriarchy or any other form of abusive control - forcing you to do something and then blaming and abusing you for doing that.

Oh he is just a twat

Im sure he does say interesting stuff on the odd occasion, i havent seen it yet but law of averages says it must happened once...or maybe it will happen one day, its deffo one of those

He's also said the solution to Incel terrorist attacks in enforced monogamy. So women need to date these violent men for the good of society.

www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html

Some people just hang off everything he says because he has a PhD, having PhD and it doesn't necessarily mean you are smart it just means you're able to retain a lot of useless information you will forget in a week.