Female prisoners in England left to give birth alone in their cells

[hackmum]

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/13/female-prisoners-in-england-left-to-give-birth-alone-in-their-cells-report-reveals

I feel increasingly despondent about the way inmates are treated in women's prisons. Not only is it now apparently acceptable to shove a male rapist in with a bunch of vulnerable women, there is a lack of basic care for pregnant women. In my view, pregnant women shouldn't be in prison in the first place, unless they've done something very seriously wrong, which the vast majority haven't.

This particular report highlights the fact that some female prisoners have been left to give birth alone in their cells. It's a depressing read.

3Wheeler1's post is very good. It's always helpful to have a contribution from someone who knows what they're talking about.

@MNHQ - what about it? A campaign for better care for pregnant women and new mothers in prison?

Choo smells like an MRA. The “no agency” talking point is a dead giveaway. Advise ignoring, or reporting if there’s any chance of getting rid that way.

That's an awful lot of pregnant women, given that there are only 4,000 women in prison altogether

Yeah that’s crazy, what is it that’s causing imprisoned women to be so disproportionately likely to be pregnant? Obviously age group and social class are playing a role but that can’t explain all of it. What are these women’s relationships like with men? Do they want to be pregnant?

Hands up here, I used Ad Hominem, because I do indeed think that ChooChoo is displaying no attempt to engage with the substance of the thread and has come here to distract from the fact that pregnant women in prison are not receiving excellent care, and I can't see why anyone would want to do that unless they were a fairly unpleasant sort.

Please, no one else waste any more of the thread pandering to this odd attempt to distract, and focus on the issue of pregnant women getting the care they need. Thankyoumuchly.

MC - I read about the issue of housing for ex women prisoners in the Big Issue a while ago. They can’t have their kids back because they don’t have adequate housing but have no priority on getting housing as their dc don’t live with them. There was a really successful pilot project that showed housing meant kids meant much reduced reoffending rate but it wasn’t continued due to ...

I think Ann ruzlno. Would be great on this
I know I not got her name correctly. But will look on twitter and try to get her name properly
I think she was or is a prison officer

What are these women’s relationships like with men? Do they want to be pregnant?

This is maddening and I'll look for the link but just yesterday I was reading that >40% of women in relationships where there is coercive control report that their partners explicitly attempt to get them pregnant or withhold contraception. And, I don't think that includes the women in abusive relationships who hope that having a baby is a way of cementing a relationship together when there are problems.

I wonder if this is relevant to the observation about pregnancy rates in this population?

That's an awful lot of pregnant women, given that there are only 4,000 women in prison altogether

The '600 pregnant women and 100 new mothers' is the total for the year, whereas 4000 is the number of female prisoners at any one time. I assume that many are given short sentences, so the number of female prisoners over a year will be higher than 4000.

It's still a lot of pregnant women though.

I think Ann ruzlno. Would be great on this
I know I not got her name correctly. But will look on twitter and try to get her name properly
I think she was or is a prison officer

Ann would be a good start. She's talks with authority about women in prison.

should they have human rights when they have, in some cases violated someone else's human rights

Because we’re not monsters. The whole idea of human rights is that they’re rights every human should have, not just the good people. Whatever crime a woman has committed isn’t going to be undone by a system that says “well you did something bad so fuck you, now you have to deliver a premature footling breech baby with no qualified professionals to help.” They are very VERY lucky that the baby survived that one.

What are these women’s relationships like with men? Do they want to be pregnant?

From the Corston report again:

"Relationship problems feature strongly in women’s pathways into crime;
Coercion by men can form a route into criminal activity for some women"

I do recommend reading the report, or at least the executive summary. There's a lot there about how women end up in prison, and their experience when they're there. There's a lot of self-harm, for example, and at the time the report was published, a greater proportion of suicides amongst female prisoners than male (this is the reverse of the population at large).

Muffin17 - this article by the economist Vicky Pryce, who spent nine weeks in prison (you may remember the case), may help provide a clearer picture of the kinds of women who end up in prison:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/27/prison-women-minor-crimes

Anne ruzlyo
But I think she is busy with a project with the manc radfems

This call to action seems right.

If the GRA changes the existing sex based rights for women, then
1)Campaigning against transing children
2)Campaigning for women only prisons.

Starting with proper statistical records.

These are the two main priorities, and there are plenty more.

Choo, if Feminism chat upsets you, there are plenty of other boards on Mumsnet. Odd that you do seem rather drawn to this one? You have a 4-day posting history, of which most of your posts are complaining about feminists and complaining about Mumsnet being man-hating.

Meanwhile, for those of us who feel rather strongly about woefully inadequate medical care for pregnant women in prison:

I’m really shocked that the Guardian article mentions as a recommendation that stillbirths in prison should be reported as deaths in custody. They’re not already? Fucking hell.

Hack
I remember the Vicky Pryce case.

In prison for a speeding offence, which was made worse by trying to pervert the course of justice.
She saw first hand what the woman in jail were in for.
She has used her experience to highlight the plight of women in prison.

A very intelligent woman.

I think she writes for the Sunday Times now.

Can't remember who her famous husband was.

If the GRA changes the existing sex based rights for women, then
1)Campaigning against transing children
2)Campaigning for women only prisons.

Starting with proper statistical records.

I strongly agree that we need appropriate and adequate reliable data collection and analysis.

I'd like to see the women-only prisons as a cornerstone of what an appropriate reform of the criminal justice system would be alongside its intersections with public health, austerity, education etc.

Choo, if Feminism chat upsets you, there are plenty of other boards on Mumsnet. Odd that you do seem rather drawn to this one? You have a 4-day posting history, of which most of your posts are complaining about feminists and complaining about Mumsnet being man-hating.

Under this name yes. Feminism chat doesn't upset me. I find it infuriating at times but I've read it for years, mainly because I think it's important to see other viewpoints.

But guess what. Feminism isn't sacrosanct. Other people can disagree with parts of it.

And the part of feminism you disagree with is... the part where feminists think it’s a bad thing if women in prison are giving birth in high-risk pregnancies with inadequate healthcare and support? You’re more of the “forcing women to go through premature breech deliveries in prison cells with no midwives or doctors is great!” school of feminism?

Choo that's not quite correct.

I am on record on several threads saying I have no problems with trans women in public loos or changing rooms, and we should only fight toget the singing sex exemptions for actual safeguarding situations - sleeping accommodation, intimate health care, prisons, refuges etc.
I have been disagreed with fairly strenuously but never called a GF etc.
It's HOW you disagree....

Can't remember who her famous husband was.

Chris Huhne

I'd like to see the women-only prisons as a cornerstone of what an appropriate reform of the criminal justice system would be alongside its intersections with public health, austerity, education etc.

If women in prison are disproportionately representative of all the things going wrong in our society, it is a tremendous opportunity to turn things around for them and for everyone else.

I don’t think any crime committed by an adult justifies putting a neonate at risk.

I just thought this is worth repeating. It is unbelievably shocking that this is happening.