Female prisoners in England left to give birth alone in their cells

[hackmum]

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/13/female-prisoners-in-england-left-to-give-birth-alone-in-their-cells-report-reveals

I feel increasingly despondent about the way inmates are treated in women's prisons. Not only is it now apparently acceptable to shove a male rapist in with a bunch of vulnerable women, there is a lack of basic care for pregnant women. In my view, pregnant women shouldn't be in prison in the first place, unless they've done something very seriously wrong, which the vast majority haven't.

This particular report highlights the fact that some female prisoners have been left to give birth alone in their cells. It's a depressing read.

I'd be interested to know if you extend the same excuses to male criminals who are incarcerated for non violent offences?

Well, since you ask - yes, I do. Prison doesn't help such people in the least.

Start your own thread choochoo. This thread is about the treatment of women who are pregnant and giving birth in prison.

I want to know why you justify putting a newborn baby at risk. Stop moving the goalposts and defend your position.

I don’t think any crime committed by an adult justifies putting a neonate at risk.
Exactly. Even if someone subscribes to the view that female prisoners have forfeited the right to a midwife, I assume they wouldn’t argue that the punishment should extend to the baby?

Tallulah

Yehbut - whataboutery!

Fucking awful. I'm joining this campaign. I'm also finally clearing out my baby stuff - was thinking of donating it to our local refuge, but will see if I can pass some on to the local women's prison.

So it's society's fault that these women commit crime? I'd be interested to know if you extend the same excuses to male criminals who are incarcerated for non violent offences?

See hackmum Tue 13-Nov-18 10:27:24 for part one.

See this line for whom prison is both disproportionate and inappropriate for part two with a yes.

Why are people put in prison for disproportionate and inappropriate reasons?

Often this comes down to reasons relating to prejudice with class and race often playing significant roles.

Justice for someone who is rich, middle class and white is very different to justice for some who does not fit that box.

One of the areas of government which has suffered most under austerity has been criminal justice.

During austerity, the percentage of GDP that the Justice Department has recieved has shrunk enormously. The percentage of GDP for the Health Department has risen at the same time; and we know this hasn't improved service as the level of demand has changed. The basic problem being that we need to put up taxes rather than squeezing services to the point where they can no longer do the job they are intended to do.

But yes do carry on about the poor do not deserve justice or to be treated equally in the eyes of the law. Its all rather enlightening.

Your beliefs dont match reality. There is no free contraception, morning after pills or abortion for very poor women.

Even if there was, it would not justify the criminal justice system putting the lives of 2 people at risk.

Red
A friend of friend went to prison. She didn't know she was pregnant. She didn't have access to a pregnancy test whilst in prison. Nor was she offered a test when she was admitted

So in the 21st century, a woman sent to prison has no access to a pregnancy tests.

I never knew that.
It is really shocking.

Ignore the dingbat GF.

Let's concentrate on how we can try to help to effect change instead.

I agree this would be a great campaign for Mumsnet.

Also: what can we do to put pressure on authorities to collect the statistics that would enable a properly informed public policy?

I think it's fairly obvious by now that ChooChoo has no particular connection to anything except winding people up and derailing a thread about pregnant female prisoners because for some reason, ChooChoo wants everyone to know what a selfish arse they are.

I mean, point made, everyone has got it now, so I suggest everyone that wants to discuss the issue and maybe mobilize a campaign ignores people who are determined to showcase their twatishness.

My knowledge of women’s prisons comes from the Archers but I remember that a place in a Mother and Baby unit was by no means automatic which shocked me.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/three-female-prisoners-dead-suicide-hmp-foston-downview-bronzefield-10-days-prison-estate-a8528126.html
Three female inmates confirmed dead in English prisons over the space of 10 days

Exclusive: Between 25 August and 3 September 2018, three women died while serving sentences in English jails, in 'deeply worrying' sign that female inmate deaths are on the rise again

From September

www.lawsociety.org.uk/news/press-releases/ray-of-light-for-justice-system/
Ray of light for justice system as High Court vindicates Law Society legal aid challenge

A legal challenge by the Law Society of England and Wales to halt cuts which were heightening the looming crisis in the criminal justice system has been backed by the High Court.

In a strongly-worded judgment handed down today, the court quashed regulations implementing cuts to payments for document-heavy crown court cases. The verdict is important because evidence-dense cases are becoming the norm due to the prevalence of digital devices.

Law Society president Christina Blacklaws said: "This is a significant ruling. Criminal solicitors provide a vital public service. We have consistently warned that this fragile criminal legal aid market cannot stand further cuts.

From August

Joe Caluori @Croslandite
In 2015 The MoJ cut the budget for Youth Offending Teams (YOTs) in local councils by £9m IN YEAR. They further cut funding by £9.1m in 16/17. They have now written to councils telling us to expect further cuts but not saying how much. Why does this matter? (Thread)
Youth Offending Teams (YOTs) have two key roles. To prevent young people becoming first time entrants (FTEs) into the criminal justice system & prevent reoffending. If their budgets are cut they cannot afford workers to supervise offenders and manage and improve their behaviour.
They will not be able to fund diversions and employment programmes. They will not have capacity to deal with fluctuations in volume of offenders in their cohort. Evidence shows that if YOTs around the country can’t manage and divert FTEs their offending will escalate. Fast.
The decision to cut funding for YOTs was political,driven by austerity as George Osborne refused to protect the MoJ from cuts. Gove signed off the original cut. The Government have it within their power to reverse the new cut they’re planning. They must surely now stop that cut.
The Youth Justice Board didn’t want to make the cuts. At the time they said they had "no alternative but to reluctantly reduce the grants which support delivery of youth justice in the community". The Tories forced them to do that. And now here we are.
In a good YOT the vast majority of kids never reoffend. They do something stupid and good workers get them through court and back in school or training. For the more serious offenders who profilcally reoffend they need serious intensive supervision by expert staff.
Youth Offending work is not sexy but it’s crucially important and when it’s down well we all benefit. Casually and thoughtlessly cutting their budgets so deeply was stupid and short sighted. How much will the Government have to spend now to clean up this mess?

A thread from April.

I could easily go on.

Austerity and the Justice system are a false economy.

Can we get that prisons chap on board, Richard something? He’s in touch with lots of GC feminists on Twitter, I think?

So in the 21st century, a woman sent to prison has no access to a pregnancy tests.

Yeah, but it seems the "friend of a friend" which more than likely doesn't exist may not have been telling the truth! What are the chances?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mothers-prison-babies-behind-bars-8143296.html

"I didn't know I was pregnant when I was sentenced," says Emma, who does not want to say what offence she committed. "But they do a drug and pregnancy test when you arrive in prison. The prison officer who did it said: 'Is there something you want to tell me?'. But it was her that told me I was going to have a baby

ANd your regular reminder that women are disproportionately affected by the effects of austerity.

"friend of a friend"

The sister of a very close friend of mine who I have known since childhood. But yes I'm a liar and this is an urban myth.

Politely Fuck Off.

choo did you read the quote from the report the OP linked too?

Here it is again, in case you missed it:

There are many women in prison, either on remand or serving sentences for minor, non-violent offences, for whom prison is both disproportionate and inappropriate. Many of them suffer poor
physical and mental health or substance abuse, or both. Large numbers have endured violent or sexual abuse or had chaotic childhoods. Many have been in care. I have concluded that we are
rightly exercised about paedophiles, but seem to have little sympathy, understanding or interest in those who have been their victims, many of whom end up in prison. The tragic series of murders in Suffolk during December 2006 rightly focussed public attention on these women as women first and foremost - someone’s daughter, mother, girlfriend, then as victims – exploited by men, damaged by abuse and drug addiction. These are among the women whom society must support and help to establish themselves in the community.

This is a shameless place mark to read later. I also intend to write to my MP about this

RedToothBrush

Really informative post at 11:01, but please, this thread is about pregnant women in prison. Please start your own thread if you want to discuss wider issues otherwise TallulahWaitingInTheRain and Floral will be very cross.

I'm assuming they're poised to correct her as well right? Otherwise it'll look like they're just trying to move on people who's opinion you don't agree with.

Lang
In this day and age of data collection,
and there are no statistics of pregnant women in prison.

With all the men going into the female prisons now, this problem must not be ignored.

I think there are enough of us here who don’t consider a mother and baby’s health to be acceptable collateral damage so I agree with moving on.

Personally I’d like to see pressure being brought onto authorities to keep statistics - otherwise how can we even gauge the size of the problem? If Birth Companions have made a start with this then I agree the way forward might be to support them.

The sister of a very close friend of mine who I have known since childhood. But yes I'm a liar and this is an urban myth

So the paper is wrong? Or is Emma the prisoner? It's there in black and white

Can we get that prisons chap on board, Richard something? He’s in touch with lots of GC feminists on Twitter, I think?

Richard Garside.