Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

[spannablue]

Here: alicenuttallbooks.wordpress.com/2018/11/04/why-i-am-a-trans-inclusive-feminist/

Enjoy!

Earlywalker also seems to be under the mistaken impression that because they have worked with some Muslim women in the UK they are knowledgeable about Islam.

There's a difference between expressing an opinion and passing ignorance off as fact.

Just popped back to see if the gaslighting and manipulation of my words had begun yet in my absence, glad to see it’s well underway.

I’m sure deep down you’re all very intelligent woman and not deliberately being obtuse but oh my, I think a reading class is in order.

You are all absolutely free to disagree with me, just as many people here do but DO NOT twist my words, take things out of context, pick on one statement from something I have provided many sources and information about and twist me to be an idiot or similar. It is uncalled for and makes you appear either unintelligent or simply manipulative. I’m sure even people here with opposing views to me would agree with that also - although they wouldn’t admit it.

Earlywalker, you seem to be under the misapprehension that all transwomen are homosexual males. I suggest you go away and educate yourself.

Or Earlywalker could check this out:

The majority of men who identify as women appear to be sexually attracted to women. A survey of roughly 3000 trans women showed that only 23% of them identified as heterosexual, with 31% as bisexual, 29% as lesbian, 7% as asexual, and 7% identifying as "queer". 2% checked "other".

Those figures, from Wikipedia suggest that fewer than a quarter are exclusively attracted to men, as compared to 67% who are attracted to women, though not necessarily exclusively.

Given that the overwhelming majority of men who identify as women retain their penis there's no wonder women don't want them in sex segregated spaces.

You are all absolutely free to disagree with me, just as many people here do but DO NOT twist my words.

I don't think I am twisting your words and I agree with you on some points. However you haven't explained why you think only extremists support self ID.

Just today the Scottish parliament has adopted policies in schools that very much support defining people by their gender and ignoring the impact of biological sex.

Just popped back

😁 you can't stay away!

Your assertions about universal Islamic acceptance of MTFs in female spaces have been thoroughly refuted.

Where next?

Agree with you on what? That Muslim women really need to just keep looking for Imam who will say it's ok to be alone with a non close family member male? Because Iran allows transsexuals but not gays?

I'm honestly trying to understand your broader position. You don't agree with self ID, you think there should be certain restrictions in sport and prisons. But generally you think there's too much fuss been made about the consequences of any changes and we're essentially just mean women here, and hopefully it's going to be ok.

I may well be unintelligent, but I'm not really being convinced by the general 'Pollyanna' approach.

Ereshkigal I know! Isn’t freedom of speech a wonderful thing? It’s hard to stay away when you watch a bunch of vultures completely twist your words to invalide arguments that you spent time writing. I’m sure you’d feel the same.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale did you miss everything else? Or just read one sentence?

prawn I never implied or said that most transwoman are homosexual males - that was someone making up a narrative in their head. I’m well aware that there are a large number that identify as lesbians.

merrymouse from the trans community I would say it is just extremists pushing for full inclusivity. A lot of trans people don’t agree with self ID. Some organisations are taking it on board but we cannot tell individual organisations what to do. Self ID is not currently law, These organisations need to understand that and the consultation probably helped to make them aware. The council situation particularly upset me, not just because of the self ID to join a rugby team but I can imagine little girls who want to play rugby have to pretend to be a boy.

calling transwoman men is just biology

Yes you’re right, biologically they are men. However, trans people have made it clear they would like to be called transwoman. By deliberately ignoring this fact, it is disrespectful. I’m of mixed heritage, we’ve been saying for years that the term ‘half-caste’ is offensive and makes us uncomfortable, despite it being everyday language in the past. If people continue to call me this after being told that it is disrespectful, I see that as either racism or a complete disregard for my feelings. Neither of which is appreciated or necessary imo.

Ereshkigal the only Islamic views I've heard on MTFs in female only spaces is that they can be allowed in such spaces, but only after they have had genital surgery. It's non negotiable.

Your assertions about universal Islamic acceptance of MTFs in female spaces have been thoroughly refuted

They haven’t. Perhaps universal yes, no one group universally agrees with anything. However the only laws and guidance in place for Islam, says exactly what I’ve stated. The woman’s personal feelings are seperate.

A lot of trans people don’t agree with self ID

Including Debbie Hayton and Miranda Yardley and some trans posters on MN. You seem to think that people on FWR have a problem with all transpeople.

Some organisations are taking it on board but we cannot tell individual organisations what to do.

I think I can certainly campaign for change if governmental organisations, political parties, schools or national charities are expressing views on gender that are harmful to women, and that is what I am doing.

Earlywalker

You seem to be agreeing with arguments A, B, and C, but not conclusion D.

You know that many, actually most, men identifying as women are attracted to women and retain their penis. According to Blanchards typology, this makes them AGP. Which is a fetish, fetishising women and their biology.

You don't agree with self ID. Which will allow all these people access to women.

But it's not self ID that does that, it's equality law, being misrepresented.

And in any event, most organisations are now adopting a policy of self ID. The Labour Party, the NSPCC, girl guides, the Scottish government, youth hostelling association, etc.

So this is arguments A, B and C.

And the conclusion, D is that the trans-ideology is allowing predators access to women and children on an unprecedented level. And yet you disagree with that?

However the only laws and guidance in place for Islam, says exactly what I’ve stated.

Can't you see that this is a bit like giving Arlene Foster religious advice from the Pope?

They haven’t. Perhaps universal yes, no one group universally agrees with anything

So they have then. Thanks for acknowledging!

Datun, yes, that's what I'm not getting. It's "I agree with you. But you're worried about nothing, it'll be fine."

FloralBunting

I know. It's inconsistency that's frustrating.

However the only laws and guidance in place for Islam, says exactly what I’ve stated.

This is just wrong. I'm sorry, I can see you're irritated that we're not getting your point, but just because you've found something you think is very broadly relevant to the whole of Islam, doesn't mean you can clap your hands together and dismiss the issue of certain religious women being excluded from 'gender inclusive' spaces.

Datun quite. Earlywalker is against self ID, yet refutes all the arguments as to why self ID is such a dangerous idea.

Earlywalker Please can you tell us why you disagree with the concept of self ID?

Yes I disagree with the narrative that

1- all things need to be segregated based on sex.

2- allowing transpeople with a GRC to use toilets of their desired sex is an issue.

3- allowing transpeople with a GRC in said spaces will mean Muslim woman have to stay locked in their houses.

4- that transmen continue to rape and murder at the same rate as men.

The issue is people who are not ‘genuine trans’ the issue is not trans people, yet the arguments on these board are against the whole ‘tran narrative’ which excludes trans people.

I think if the whole ‘fair play for woman’ and similar campaigns were based around keeping GRC rules the same and ensuring only those holding a certifate could use facilities, there would be a lot more support but it has turned into a ‘no trans people in our toilets ever’ type debate and has painted trans people to be dangerous criminals.

Religion kills and oppresses far more woman than trans people ever have... yet everyone here seems keen to support those hindered by religion but demonise transgender people. If it is solely just about woman, would you all be happy to have a fully transitioned (i.e no penis) trans in our toilets?

it is just extremists pushing for full inclusivity.

It's not really about inclusivity though is it?. If I want my daughter to have the opportunity to play rugby at the local rugby club which is currently all male, I can do that while still recognising that she is not a boy.

We could talk about increased toilet provision and still recognise that different groups of people use toilets differently.

legislation can make life easier for trans people without agreeing that anyone can change sex.

It's about endorsing the idea that 'TWAW'.

I really don't get the basis of your arguments, Earlywalker. When I re-read your posts the impression I get is that you just want women to be nice, without ever acknowledging that the TRAs and their misogynist, homophobic ideology are far from nice to women.

It might be educational if you spent time on one of the male or trans dominated forums and tried telling them they should be nice.

This next bit isn't aimed at you. It's just an observation. I have frequently noticed that libfems don't have an underlying basis for their political positions. That's why so many of their statements kinda crumple under pressure.

I see silly statements saying feminism is for everyone and should centre men.

Reminds me of the definition of woman. TRAs and their allies can't define the word. Likewise with feminism. If you can't define it are you actually a feminist?

I say this as someone who only found out I was a radical feminist in the last few years. Radical feminism, with its intellectual underpinnings, was the only type of feminism that existed in my teens.

But Earlywalker that is exactly what FPFW and all the other womens’ orgs have been doing. Haven you even looked at any of their web sights?

Please can you explain why you’re against self ID?

yet everyone here seems keen to support those hindered by religion but demonise transgender people.

I don't have to agree with either group to want them to be able to participate in society.

The difference is that nobody is forcing me to wear a headscarf. It's becoming increasingly difficult to question the ideology that sex doesn't exist and that everybody has a gender identity.

Can't you see that this is a bit like giving Arlene Foster religious advice from the Pope?

Or that different countries have different laws? For example, Egypt 's law are based both on the Qur'an and Napoleonic Code, which Saudi Arabia's derive from the Qur'an.

The issue is people who are not ‘genuine trans’

"No true Scotsman..."