Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

[spannablue]

Here: alicenuttallbooks.wordpress.com/2018/11/04/why-i-am-a-trans-inclusive-feminist/

Enjoy!

What loos do I use please.? I have no clear gender identity

Link from other thread - www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna911106

I’ve not called anyone transphobic. I completely understand the view points but I do think it’s largly scare mongering and forcing woman to seen as a victim.

No one needs you to define your gender, trans people already use the toilet of their choice and have been for some years and you probably don’t even notice. If you look manly I won’t ask you to drop your trousers and prove it, but seems a lot of manly looking woman are in for a rough ride.

I agree merry

Sorry merry

I meant your post at 22:18

Why would we segregate based on subjective feelings rather than by physical differences between bodies.

A mans feelings have absolutely no bearing on the fact that I don’t want to share a toilet with him for reasons of privacy and dignity.

How he feels in his head means nothing to me because 1. I don’t subscribe to the gender identity belief system, 2. It doesn’t change the fact he is male and 3. I cannot perceive his thoughts and feelings, even if I did care about them.

No one needs you to define your gender

It would seem to be part of the process of deciding which toilet to use if you are segregating them by gender. What is gender and what does it have to do with using a toilet?

Surely woman is a worldwide word that is translated as appropriate, no one can just erase a common word.

EarlyWalker sad to say, you're like so many women in the beginning who isn't really paying as much attention as you think you are. Delve deeper, read more of what they say and you'll find yourself (as so many other women before you) surprised and then eventually outraged.

They are the only ones who get to be called women, the rest of us must refer to ourselves as ciswomen. People who breastfeed (guess which sex does that) must refer to themselves as chestfeeders even when there's no trans around! Transwomen are the only biological females, while we are regulated to cisfemale. The amount of appropriation and validation they need, just never ends. Fail to display the proper amount of obedience and subservience to them, and they'll turn on you with the same amount of vitriol they reserve for any other "bigot".

Those of us who are critical of transgenderism, did not get this way because we are mean hysterical harpies. We got this way because we saw example after example of women forced into a hierarchy with transwomen at the top and us on the bottom. They claim that any lesbian who won't have sex with a transwoman's penis is a bigot! It literally never ends...

What is gender and what does it have to do with using a toilet?

Very good question.

Gender defined, not mixed sex.

What do you mean by 'gender defined'? Why do women have to allow men into their spaces based on men's feelings?

A mans feelings have absolutely no bearing on the fact that I don’t want to share a toilet with him for reasons of privacy and dignity.

This. And again women are having to adjust their feelings of comfort according to the feelings of males. So if a male says he is a man, women are allowed to feel uncomfortable and say no to him in their space. If that male says he is a woman, women are not allowed to feel uncomfortable, in fact it's 'bigoted' to feel that way.

Gender defined, not mixed sex.

What's the difference?

I think it’s WOuld Be illegal to separate on the basis of gender. The equality act is pretty clear that segregation as a rule on any characteristic should be avoided, only when it can be deemed appropriate action in response to a specific problem can it be tolerated.

A a rule, no I don’t believe that I am regularly sharing the facilities with a transperson. At work they are expected to use the disabled facilities and some unisex facilities have been created. To the best of my recollectiom, investigation into the impact on disabled people was carried out. Where are you based if that is a regular occurrence?

Spanna you wasn't assigned female it was observed. Gender is a choice sex isn't

You could say that about anything though. Who is going to have more interest in your body if you’re naked? A gay man or a lesbian? But we don’t segregate based on orientation for our own ‘dignity’ you have no idea if the lady getting changed next to you and your daughter is a child abuser and is taking pictures slyly to put online.

Woman are not all fantastic people, and neither are men. Both sexes abuse people (albeit one a lot more) you are not safe, and if you believe someone is not a threat because they have a vagina then you need to wake up also.

The one time I was attacked in a toilet was by a group of girls in a nightclub after one of their boyfriends tried to chat me up. I understand that victims of sexual assault are weary, I have been there but by creating this enemy in this way, it’s not helping anyone.

Transwoman are the only one allowed to call themselves biological woman? You’d have to dive pretty deep into the TRA narrative to find that, it’s certainly not a view held by the majority of trans people that I follow/know. This is what I mean, a few narcissistic people are spouting crap and you’re all taking it to heart as if it’s what the majority of them want. If I call myself a woman will I get arrested? Banned on twitter? No. If I deliberately go out of my way to upset individuals and tell them that their gender dysphoria is a lie or their not a real girl, will I? Maybe. Have you all been arrested for holding your (sometimes very strong) views on here in a respectful way? Nope.

Another reason why I don’t want to share, as well as privacy and dignity, is because I do not exist to validate men.

If misgendering is so awful, and the very definition of transphobia is “the refusal to accept someone’s gender identity”, then I think the claim of “we just need to pee” is disingenuous.

Peeing in the ladies canmot be anything other than extremely affirming if the above is to be claimed, and I have no interest in being a non consentual supporting role in that thanks.

Gender defined, not mixed sex.

I see others have picked this out as well, but I shall add to the chorus - if someone of the opposite sex can define their 'gender' as being the same as my sex, and can then enter a single sex space, then how is it not mixed sex?

no ones feelings trump another, and if study’s and statistics show that gender defined bathrooms do not increase risks to woman

NO

I don't consent to sharing toilets with men

transwomen are men, and their feelings don't trump mine

What is gender and what does it have to do with using a toilet?

Can you answer this, or not?

people are spouting crap and you’re all taking it to heart as if it’s what the majority of them want

Erm nope

Earlywalker Many women do notice if a male-born person is somewhere that we expect to be sex segregated. They are just too polite or scared to say something. I don’t want my fight-or-flight response triggered when I go to a place where I can reasonably expect to let my guard down for a moment. You worry about women being “seen as a victim”. I worry about actually being a victim.

earlywalker Brighton and Hove Council might be ‘spouting crap’, but I think it’s pushing it to call a city council a ‘narcissistic individual’.

Who is going to have more interest in your body if you’re naked? A gay man or a lesbian?

good heavens are you seriously saying that women as a class are at more risk from lesbians than from men?

cos that's a bit of a reach. you might want to limber up first

it's also rather offensive. you should know damn well that sexual abuse is about power, not sexual attraction

What is gender and what does it have to do with using a toilet?

I’m not an expert on any of these issues and I’m not claiming to be. Im simply stating my own personal opinion. My understanding is currently, toilets are defined based on sex (which is biological - obvs) if toilets were defined based on gender, it would be if you were a biological woman, or a transwoman you could use those facilities. Mixed sex facilities mean there is one space for both sexes and anyone can use them. This means that both sexes can continue to use the toilets of their biological or reassigned sex.

If this would impact anyone’s mental health (for example a rape victim), you can gain a radar key and a legitimate reason for using the disabled facilities is anxiety or impact of mental health in open toilets.

I know you will now all say we shouldn’t take spaces from the physically disabled but I think if it really worries you that much that you couldn’t bare to use a toilet on the off chance a transwoman is there, you probably do have underlying anxiety issues.

No woman should not be ‘forced out’ of their own spaces as you will now all say, but the majority of woman are perfectly happy with the current status quo of transwoman using toilets.

I would also say to ‘stonewall trans’ as per current guidelines, they are not legally their new sex so need to use the toilets for their sex or again if an impact on mental health, the disabled toilets until provisions can be made for a third space which I would definitely support.

good heavens are you seriously saying that women as a class are at more risk from lesbians than from men?

Erm no, where did you read that. Please don’t say that I’ve said something that I haven’t to try and paint me as an imbecile so you’re own arguments appear stronger. I’ve had enough of that on these boards in the past and I will not have it again.

trans people already use the toilet of their choice and have been for some years and you probably don’t even notice.

What about my choice?

Do I get to choose not to have to share an intimate space with someone whose only qualification for being there is that they want to be there?

As for we don't notice.......

the majority of woman are perfectly happy with the current status quo of transwoman using toilets

prove it

any woman I've spoken to about this has been very clear that they do not want to share toilets with men. And according to the women ask questions poll, only 19% of people would consider a person who identifies as female but has a penis to be a woman.