Are kids on blockers a-sexual as adults?

[naivetyisthenewblack]

Can anyone help me work this one through?

I've been realising with horror that if a kids takes blockers before puberty, then goes on to hormones and surgery, then they'll not only be sterile but likely end up incapable of sexual function. They'll be asexual as an adult.

Jazz Jennings, for example, has been open about not having ever had an orgasm at 18 and that their penis never matured into an adults penis, so Jazz's neo-vagina was created out of their child's penis and part of the colon IIRC.

Am I right in thinking all boys who take blockers before puberty kicks in will be incapable of sexual desire or adult sexual function when they grow up if they never have a male puberty?

Then what about girls who take blockers before puberty? I understand testosterone can enlarge the clitoris but also causes the vagina to atrophy. Can girls who go onto blockers before puberty then onto T expect any kind of functional sex life as an adult?

I haven't seen this discussed much, but I think it's important as I suspect many parents / teachers / professionals advocating acceptance of transing children aren't aware of this.

Also, do blockers stop children developing into adults with sexual desire?

Are we creating a generation of asexual adults who have no comprehension of what they're missing?

Who cares if people don't want to have sex?

How can you be so blasé?

I can tell you, I care very much that my libido was obliterated by this drug and never returned. My husband cares a lot too. The fact we won’t be having another child unless I can find a resolution is also an issue.

This is not transphobia - this is legitimate concern stemming from personal experience, and yet funnily enough none of those who come here to cry transphobia ever respond to my posts.

Greta I think we’ve spoken before about your daughter and these drugs.

IMO the key difference here is that that drugs were used to enable the body’s processes to occur correctly and at the right time. Early puberty would be detrimental for your daughter, having it at the right time was beneficial.

For children like these (or women like me, who had two years of menopause in their 20s because of it), the body is being prevented from doing what it should do and when it should do it.

Can anyone point me to any studies, articles by experts on this subject?

Or accounts of trans people?

There's this video by Jazz Jennings on not having ever had an orgasm.

What other evidence is out there that this is a problem? Thanks.

Silentlyobserving what term would you use for an adult devoid of sexual urges and/or functioning genitals?

I must admit I've found terminology challenging in talking about this. It's not always easy to say what I mean without long sentences making it clear I'm talking about sexual function not fertility.

I guess chaste has religious undertones and implies a choice, so that’s out.

How about “non-sexual”?

That’s the problem naivety - there’s barely any information. The studies haven’t been done, there is research into their use for precocious puberty but as I expressed above that’s a very different scenario.

I know my longterm side effects have never been reported by a doctor because they frankly give no shits. Same when I had the mirena coil.

You only need to look online for support groups for women experiencing these problems to see how ignored it is as an issue.

I am reasonably certain that the drug has affected my thyroid, similar to central hypothyroidism as this affects the pituitary gland, same as this drug. I decided to do some research - know how many papers I found? One. About two people, in Korea (if I remember rightly). This is not on anyone’s radar, although I hope that will change now they’re being prescribed off label to children to halt puberty rather than to delay it, as is the case in precocious puberty.

There was one study involving transition and detransitioning that was posted a while ago which was framed as a positive result, but around half of the starting participants were missing from the analysis and one participants died (I think following surgery).

TammySwansonTwo
I'm so sorry for you, if the company knows about the side effect and fails to disclose that it will happen to a majority then its serious negligence. I would contact a solicitor to see if theres a case you can take.

Just been googling - there’s certainly a lot more information out there these days but it’s mostly about Lupron rather than the drug I was on - seems there was a class action lawsuit against the drug I took in America but that was today with inflating the price or something?

I can’t see that I would have any hope of legal action because there’s no way to prove that the problems I have are caused by it - if they concealed information then maybe but I imagine it would be a huge job to prove it.

I may try to find others who have experienced similar. My main aim really is to make women think twice before taking these drugs, and certainly make parents think twice before using them to prevent puberty happening when it should.

Tammy, that's horrific, I'm so sorry you are having to go through this.

Also, do blockers stop children developing into adults with sexual desire?

There's a transgendertrend blog article around this.

www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers-safe/

“When we block the surge of hormones that create the adolescent brain we invent a new kind of human being: cosmetically perfect but lacking sexual and reproductive function”

On brain development, GIDS says:

The blocker is a physically reversible intervention: if the young person stops taking the blocker their body will continue to develop as it was previously. However, we don’t know the full psychological effects of the blocker or whether it alters the course of adolescent brain development.

I know my longterm side effects have never been reported by a doctor because they frankly give no shits

TammySwansonTwo that's shocking. I'm so sorry you're suffering long term effects.

Tammy you can get those side effects recorded.

yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk

The MHRA is the Uk equivalent of the FDA (roughly.) you can use this system to report what you have experienced.

"The blocker is a physically reversible intervention: if the young person stops taking the blocker their body will continue to develop as it was previously. However, we don’t know... whether it alters the course of adolescent brain development." - claim by GIDS cited above.

Two different studies of kids who took puberty-blockers to suppress precocious puberty show a 7-8 point decline in IQ. This is a presumably permanent decline.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00044/full#B8

In one of the studies, two of 15 girls on puberty blockers had to be held back a grade.

It's probably significant that most trans kids put on puberty blockers stay on them far longer than is customary for kids who take them for precocious puberty.

"Buying time or arresting development? The dilemma of administering hormone blockers in trans children and adolescents" is a short review of what little research there is from Porto Biomedical Journal, Oct. 2017:

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2444866417301101

From the conclusion:

"...the treatment risks hindering the individual's development of a free personality, sexuality and identity, thus disconnecting the young person from the typical experiences of her or his age, with no certainty of the long-term effects on physical health. Suppression of puberty may suggest that the person is deprived of adolescence – the crucial time to deal with identity issues, experiment and pursue unstable convictions regarding the self...

"From a psychological perspective, the main dilemma is to understand whether 'buying time' at such a precocious age truly enables children to explore deep personal meanings, or whether it freezes youngsters in a prolonged childhood, secluding them from certain aspects of reality and isolating them from peer groups."

I separated this from my prior post about the study on puberty blockers - "Buying time or arresting development? - in case it gets removed. I want to point out that I'm not revealing anything here that hasn't already been revealed on Jazz Jennings' TV show "I Am Jazz" or supplementary videos Jazz has posted on YouTube.

Unfortunately, what's happened with Jazz - on puberty blockers since 11 & cross-sex hormones (estrogen) since 12 - indicates that puberty blockers will leave a trans child forever "frozen in a prolonged childhood."

As OP & others have noted, Jazz has been very open about having no libido & little or no sexual sensation in the genitals her early & longterm use of puberty blockers has left stunted. And though she's now 18, she's never dated.

What's more, since Jazz had "a falling out" with all her childhood friends in 9th grade, her only friendships appear to be the few rather forced ones she has with fellow trans teens met relatively recently. Jazz is so alienated from the peers she grew up with, in fact, that she dropped out of HS last year at the start of 11th grade. She supposedly is now taking classes online, but last year her mom said Jazz spends most of her time in her bedroom watching TV & binge eating.

What social life Jazz at age 18 has is still mainly limited to her family, which developmentally is way, way behind. Today her principal companion remains, as always, her mother, who - inappropriately, indeed weirdly - was still accompanying Jazz into doctors' exam rooms for genital exams when Jazz was 17.

Even more disturbing, discussions shown on "I Am Jazz" last year between Jazz, her doctors & parents about Jazz's "bottom surgery" made it clear that Jazz's mother would be intimately involved in the intensive dilating regimen Jazz's neo vagina would require in the months/year post-surgery.

In fact, the surgeons Jazz & her parents consulted said they generally preferred doing "bottom surgery" on trans girls at 16 or 17, before they've left home, because then the parents can either do the dilation or make sure it gets done - which the doctors fear won't happen if a child already has left home for uni or independent life.

It seems clear to me that putting GNC children on puberty blockers is child abuse that can/will stunt their development sexually & in myriad others ways. And it paves the way for novel forms of parent-child boundary invasion & sexual abuse never heard of or imagined before.

Thank you for those posts, Vegilante. And may I just sidetrack to congratulate you on a superb username? 

Great posts.

Just in case that does get deleted, I'm gonna edit a smidge for quoting...

"In fact, the surgeons [...] consulted said they generally preferred doing "bottom surgery" on trans girls at 16 or 17, before they've left home, because then the parents can either do the dilation or make sure it gets done - which the doctors fear won't happen if a child already has left home for uni or independent life."

That is shocking.

@SirVix

Same here - I found myself blocked by that Mary Beard antagonist, but also by karen somebody, the spokesperson for the "1600 scientists".

I think I must be on a newer list, because I can still see in all their glory mimmim and a whole other bunch of people.

"In fact, the surgeons [...] consulted said they generally preferred doing "bottom surgery" on trans girls at 16 or 17, before they've left home, because then the parents can either do the dilation or make sure it gets done - which the doctors fear won't happen if a child already has left home for uni or independent life."

Surely a child who has left hone for uni or independent life is no longer a child but an adult? A “child” who leads an “independent life” is a contradiction in terms .

Given the radical and life changing nature of the surgery, some people might wonder why you would rush to do it on a “ child” of 16-17 instead of waiting until they are 18-19 and legally an adult.

Surely a child who has left hone for uni or independent life is no longer a child but an adult?

A child who does not go through puberty remains a child...

Legally they are an adult. They get to make their own choices about things like major surgery.

Yes their body stays pre pubescent. Doesn’t it make you wonder why other adults ( with adult bodies and functioning themselves) are very keen to promote this?

Something else that it’s very difficult for a child to understand is the stress of being committed to a regime of drugs and probably further surgery for the rest of your life.

Where can you travel/live and have access to care?

How will it be funded?