Are kids on blockers a-sexual as adults?

[naivetyisthenewblack]

Can anyone help me work this one through?

I've been realising with horror that if a kids takes blockers before puberty, then goes on to hormones and surgery, then they'll not only be sterile but likely end up incapable of sexual function. They'll be asexual as an adult.

Jazz Jennings, for example, has been open about not having ever had an orgasm at 18 and that their penis never matured into an adults penis, so Jazz's neo-vagina was created out of their child's penis and part of the colon IIRC.

Am I right in thinking all boys who take blockers before puberty kicks in will be incapable of sexual desire or adult sexual function when they grow up if they never have a male puberty?

Then what about girls who take blockers before puberty? I understand testosterone can enlarge the clitoris but also causes the vagina to atrophy. Can girls who go onto blockers before puberty then onto T expect any kind of functional sex life as an adult?

I haven't seen this discussed much, but I think it's important as I suspect many parents / teachers / professionals advocating acceptance of transing children aren't aware of this.

Also, do blockers stop children developing into adults with sexual desire?

Are we creating a generation of asexual adults who have no comprehension of what they're missing?

Who cares if people don't want to have sex?

There is a difference between an adult, having gone through correct puberty, freely deciding that they don’t want to have sex, and a child who has no concept of what a sex life really is because they are a child being denied the chance of one in their future.

One is an adult, conscious choice and the other is coercive and abusive denial of choice. One is choosing not to use a function and one is having that function chemically and surgically removed beforevthe person is old enough to understand and fully consent.

Funnily enough, there are indeed calls for the age at which children can consent to these processes to be lowered. An academic with links to TELI has called for just this.

The problem - as well as the fact that children are NOT able to consent fully at this age is that all sorts of unsavoury possibilities are opened up as a side effect. If a child can consent to something as fundamental as drastic drug treatment and surgery, what else can they consent to?

Where there is a loophole, predators will exploit it. The age of consent is there for a very good reason - to protect children from predatory adults who wish to harm them.

Goodness, is that how you would pitch it to anxious youngsters and their parents, Southbound? That’s at least quite refreshingly honest.

(Actually, when my kid was 10 and talking about suicide, I might have said something similar. Who cares about future sexuality when we have bigger problems right now? But I don’t see why you think it’s ‘transphobic’ to be worried about removing a child’s chance of a future sex life.)

I’ve also wondered if any children stop blockers without taking hormones. I would imagine there is an age window for puberty ?

I’ve wondered this too - and I don’t know. I don’t think anybody knows becausevthe drugs were developed to deal with a veryvsoecific situation - the need to delay a correct puberty by just a few years. The idea of delaying permanently would not have been countenanced. It’s only since the 1990s these drugs have been used like this so we don’t have much data.

These children are guinea pigs. Their bodies and minds are being manipulated without proper oversight or ethics control. They will have lifelong complications.

I think I read the suicide rate is 19x higher in post transition individuals? These kids are being sold a lie that they can change sex and that itvwill solve their problems. The reality is very different.

So transactivists are quite happy to keep pushing blockers as 'reversible' without any proof whatsoever?

As we are continually learning, if teenagers being made sterile and with no sexual function validates some people's worldview, it's a price worth paying.

Having written that I realise that that, of variants if it, have come up so many times in recent history.

It's absolutely horrific, and on a par with forcibly sterilising learning disabled people and the poor, which has rightly been decried as eugenics.

Yeah, who cares, right? It's just transphobia to be worried about children being able to mature into fully functioning adults with every possible option open to them.

The compassionate, trans-inclusive thing to do is halt their development, pump them full of cross sex hormones to create a general appearance of the opposite sex, and then mutilate their genitals, further removing a large amount of sensation which could lead to sexual pleasure.

And these creeps actually think they are 'sex positive'.

I think anyone who thinks it doesn't matter for children to have any chance of a fulfilling sex life in future removed from them should read Kingsley Amis' novel The Alteration. (It's also a fabulously funny novel and brilliant piece of "alternative history" - Goebbels and Beria as members of the Holy Office, a Yorkshire pope, the Vatican sited at Cowley because the reformation never happened.)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Alteration

I don't see the difference between doing this to a child for the benefit of their place in a religious framework (preserving a beautiful voice to sing in services to the greater glory of God) and doing this to a child because of the quasi-religious belief system of genderism (lady souls in gentlman bodies...)

mobile.twitter.com/wsbtv/status/1056871518561419265

Seems relevant.

Who cares if people don't want to have sex?

I can't believe someone could actually bring themselves to type this in a thread about chemically/surgically castrating children.

I often wonder how terrible atrocities are just lived with and normalised in history and around the world. The fact that someone could come out with that shit goes some way to explaining it.

Callous, cold-hearted fuckers thinking they are justified on some level.

Ahh, a recommendation for The Alteration. It is a terrific book. (Although for some reason it's always mixed up in my head with, the also good, Pavane.)

I always thought you were a woman of discernment FermatsTheorem.

Who cares if people don't want to have sex?
Adults are free to make decisions about their own sex life.
Children who have never had any sex drive because they are pre-pubescent cannot possibly make an informed decision about living their life infertile and without a sex life.
They cannot know if they will want to have children or not. They cannot know if they will want sex to be part of their lives or not.

We know that most children who take puberty blockers to avoid going through puberty at the normal time, will go on to take cross-sex hormones. That makes the decision to take puberty blockers a permanent decision that leaves them infertile and without sexual function. There is no way that is acceptable.
This is further reinforced as we know that the vast majority of children who socially transition without puberty blockers, desist by adulthood.

I cannot see any justification for the use of puberty blockers other than the short-term use in the case of precocious puberty.

Yes. Also being sexless will greatly decrease chances of attracting or keeping a romantic/life partner or satisfying relationship because sex is pretty important to most adults. Rejection hurts and these kids are being set up for so many knock-backs as adults - it's so cruel.

I am certainly not a fan of transitioning children, but I would like to point out the blockers alone do not do long term damage.

My DD has a genetic condition which caused precocious puberty (among other things).

Under the care of a professor of endocrinology she started having implants at the age of 6 . If she had not done this she would have developed breasts (she already had noticeable breast buds) and got her period at that age and her bone growth would have been affected.

She came off them at 12 and puberty proceeded completely normally. She is a very healthy 17 yo. In short: blockers alone are not necessarily harmful if used appropriately for a valid medical reason.

The stupid thing is (by the way it was me who was talking about the rapeyness of having an oriface created for something you have no desire to do to be quoted!) you'd think that adults who identify as trans would be a bit concerned about the eugenics aspect of rendering the next generation of people who identify as trans infertile. Shows it's someone the AGPs pushing the agenda for nefarious reasons rather than a humanitarian cause imo.

Gertrude, they're only to be used for a limited amount of time for precocious puberty though - a trans person would need to take them from beginning of puberty right through until gonadectomy iirc. That's potentially a very long time (what with the amount of people who don't have surgery)

Asexual refers to a form of reproduction that does not include Homo sapiens - thus this thread makes no sense whatsoever as no human is "asexual"

Asexual is also a term used to describe to phenomena of feeling no sexual/romantic feelings, either through quirk of nature or medical intervention. It is increasingly being adopted by bright, woke young things to describe a 'spectrum' of sexual or romantic non expression, usually abbreviated to the cutesy 'Aces'. That's the context to this thread.

What about the sta men?

Okay, I'll get my coat...

Asexual like many other biological terms has been hijacked to promote a specific agenda and I for one will never use the term to describe anything other than reproduction based on budding, cloning and various other asexual reproductive processes.

I don’t understand why anyone intelligent enough to be an academic, would block people they have never engaged with.

I notice that Owen Jones has blocked Beatrix Campbell on Twitter, which seems very much of the mosquito vs elephant kind of thing.

I had a daughter at 16 after having sex once with a boy on holiday , I was drunk so felt nothing ,
then was forced into marrying a man decades ago, sex with him did nothing for me , I felt nothing ,by that only violation and disgust

its been a different matter when I have been with any of my girlfriends over the last 40+ years

I have a few straight female friends who get nothing from sex with their husbands either

having also marched against FGM over many years women who had had forced FGM would have no sensation either

but why do people ( usually straight men ) need to know peoples intimate sexual habits and desires ?

it probably says a lot more about them ? as an out lesbian have gotten sick about straight people asking what me and any of my girlfriends do in bed !

we usually say , is there something missing from your life ? wanting to know what we or anyone else gets up to in bed ?

at least have the decency to use your real name when naming and or discussing people with real lives

That article in the tweet posted by FloralBunting www.wsbtv.com/news/local/georgia-woman-says-drug-used-to-treat-endometriosis-led-to-series-of-health-problems/859263892

"Lupron lawyers convinced a federal judge to seal the results from several clinical trials, but not until an expert witness disclosed evidence that even after a year off the drug, 62 percent of women did not regain normal estrogen levels."

Those appear to be adult women who took the drug short term and yet we're being told its just a pause and puberty will resume without issue after months/years of treatment on bodies that are supposed to be going through puberty at the appropriate age without any negative effects

I'm so glad people are taking these cases the only bad thing is how long this will probably take to get to court

°She came off them at 12 and puberty proceeded completely normally. She is a very healthy 17 yo. In short: blockers alone are not necessarily harmful if used appropriately for a valid medical reason.^

The important part there is she came off them and went through puberty. Transitioning children will never go throuChildren on blockers don't get the brain development that comes with puberty, nor the learning experiences, so they never have the opportunity to change their minds. Puberty and growing up are a time of constant changes that a medicalised trans child misses out on. They are always further and further behind their peers. They continue to be pre-pubertal^

This is what I find so disturbing. While these children become older, they never actually technically become adults - it's an utterly bizarre thing to do to someone.

Miri, that article has just made me cry.

I took a different GnrHA in my 20s for two years. Now in my late 30s and my health has been absolutely wrecked. Only just found out recently (from paying for tests myself) that my oestrogen levels are extremely low over 10 years later. Doctors have no interest in helping. I have taken the blame for this as I was told the risks and took it anyway, but now I realise I never had the full picture.