Another Woman Hounded Out of Employment...

[SunsetBeetch]

A twitter account called @thewhitepube, run by two intensely irritating very young women, has been targetting a woman called Nina Edge for alleged 'transphobia', which has apparently culminated in her being sacked.

Excuse me WHO is running the @welshstreets account and retweeting bad terf bullshit logic?

I will loudly bang this drum tomorrow when everyone’s awake 😊 @edge_nina @welshstreets pls let me know in the meantime!! Sweet dreams Xxxxx

It appear the Welsh Streets account has become the soapbox for artist @edge_nina (who was recently commissioned to do the winter garden) to spout transphobia, does that represent the view of all involved in the Welsh Streets effort?

I understand why people followed the account in the past (because their housing activism has been good for Liverpool) but I would urge everyone to unfollow in the meantime because you are just putting your trans followers and audiences at arms length in the meantime.

A student leaked it on the Artists Against Transphobia FB. Doesn’t say much but of course getting all ‘denying our existence’ bollocks.

I do think the White Pube pair are floundering, they sound increasingly unhinged. I don’t suppose they’ve ever received such a backlash before.

Is the fulcrum if this around whether Nina is transphobic or not? Or whether free opinions, free expression are necessary for art to flourish?

Nina is an artist. How can art flourish or be valid where there is curtailment of free speech ? She shouldn’t be put on journalistic trial as a transphobe (I do not believe she is), the threat to her right to free speech should be put on trial!

User, if you publicly tweet that women don't have penises, she may trust you more

I support this journalist trying to report this, because journalism is important and the campus will be awash with rumour and slander. User, you need to get Nina to trust you. Do you have control of the story? What will happen in the editing? Will it come out of your hands? Will the headline be written by you? Reassure her that you have control of the story and can ensure true balance, and perhaps she'll talk to you (Nb don't lie!)

I've just been reading a couple of interviews the white pube have done. My conclusion (as an actual working class woman) is that the pair of them are fakers. They're doing a horrible parody of working class young voices, which they are able to get away with and get noticed for precisely because they are not working class.

This is what rags like the Guardian do when they want a working class voice - they find someone they can relate to from their own class but who adopts a mask made of shitty stereotypes about wc people. Then they hold it up as an authentic wc voice and act like they are more grounded and authentic (or 'cool') themselves as a result of the trick. It's a way of continuing to speak over us and not let go of any of their privileges - they can hire their own kids and their kids mates, but pretend they are enabling diversity.

So yeh, from what I read of their own work and interviews this morning, my conclusion is that the white pube are the 'art critic' equivalent of posh boys adopting cockney accents.

I can't help noticing that the white pube started their shtick slumming it pretending to be Common People while the pair of them were studying at (Central) Saint Martins. This at least has given me chuckles.

I was at uni (a pretty prestigious RG uni, for context) with someone like this, she lived almost as though she was homeless, squatting etc, always looking unwashed and grubby, but I happened to see her home address one day and realised she lived just round the corner from me, in an extremely middle-class affluent suburb. She was Asian with green hair too, weirdly enough - this is nearly 30 years ago, so they couldn't be less original if they tried!

Spot on Joan

In my experience when people often have to clarify that they’re “an actual actual working class woman” they’re usually not. So Joan are you actually a working class woman?

In my experience

Welcome to Mumsnet! Unless this is a NC?

It might be courteous for you to conduct an AS on the poster's name (in this case, Joan) to glean whether or not that is a question that needs clarification judging by the member's posting history.

I see on the AART Facebook page there are loads of students on there who say they were at the meeting & slandering Nina. They seem to be in full breach of their social media policy, as is posted on this thread further down.

Is it possible for a third party, with no links to the uni or anyone else to complain, ie. any or us, to complain or is that just silly?

Yes xlvx I actually am :)

Unlike the women from the white pube.

Hit a nerve I reckon.

In my experience when people often have to clarify that they’re “an actual actual working class woman” they’re usually not. So Joan are you actually a working class woman?

I don't know anything about Joan beyond information which she shares here. I can't hear her spoken voice and I don't know her background. I don't see any objection to her stating what she has to clarify the point she is making.

Do you know what some of the tells are xlvx?

The white pubes studied fine art (tell) in London (tell) then moved back in to their mums houses, where they spend their time talking shit online (tell) belittling the work of working (tell) artists and curators. Yet the white pubes have no fear of this 'self employment' venture failing (tell), no fear of their needing employment in the future (tell), and no fear of the impact of what they are doing on their current families (tell) or potential children (tell).

They think that writing shit online about people qualifies as "art criticism" (tell) and assume they are entitled to be listened to (tell) no matter what they say and how incomprehensibly they say it. And in return for their unbelievably bad writing they are rewarded with favourable coverage in The Guardian (TELLTELLTELL).

That's just a summary of the most obvious info out there about them. Actually reading their crap it is like a bell ringing constantly dingdingdingdingding

what a superb summary take down of them, Joan, I salute you.

Great parody account

According to a very reliable 15 year old boy in archway, POSY PARKER has acquired a small nuclear arsenal from a right wing Christian group. Peter Tatchell is calling for urgent inconclusive talks asap.

twitter.com/PubeWhit/status/1058001517511393280?s=19

i’m sorry none of those seem like tells to me? in fact the opposite?

1. most upper artist kids don’t need to study art at uni because of nepotism will bankroll their career

1. if they weren’t working class and their parents were rich wouldn’t they just be living in some flat paid by their parents?

1. being “self employed” means nothing, also they have a page of their expenses on their website which doesn’t seem to be a lot (like most people who work in the arts) and also have a patreon where people give them money also? if they were rich wouldn’t they just ask mummy and daddy to fund them?

1. think about how parents in the past have gotten racist/homophobic etc. teachers fired and this is very comparable to that - most people don’t think about whether those teachers have to survive they just don’t want them to be teaching their child etc.

1. isn’t all criticism just talking shit about people online/in real life etc?

I am loving Whit Pube.

LOL’d about 4 times readyng their busy output.
“Get in your baths at 7pm”

“Panto dames are women”

The DrAdrisn marionette “struggling to stop the knees bending backwards while the head faced forwards “

“IT IS ONLY BY MAINTAINING THE UPPER CASE THAT TRUE PROGRESS TO WOKENESS CAN BE SHOWN”

“HARRY POTTER”

I am wetting myself. Please, please, Whit Pube, keep this up.

Xlvx

I didn't say they are upper class, I said they aren't working class. Your points are all odd to the point they seem deliberately disingenuous.

1. Most kids from wealthy families go to university even if they don't need to, everyone knows that, and nepotistic networking is enabled quite nicely there.

2. I expect few families, even wealthy ones, just buy their kids flats when they've just left uni.

3. Mummy and daddy do fund them, they provide them with homes and support them while they write trash on the internet about other people's actual work.

4. A woman speaking about the danger and impact of opening women's spaces to men is not comparable to racism or homophobia. When comparing women and men's positions in society, it is women who are the marginalised and oppressed group. You have it the exactly backwards in your analogy. Insisting that women (female people) submit our language, identity, boundaries and spaces to men (male people) is a male supremacist position. How those men 'identify' is irrelevant.

And university students aren't 'children' who need to be protected from 'teachers' - they are young adults who should expect that their views will be challenged, and that they should work on developing informed arguments.

5. Criticism is not just talking shit, or it shouldn't be - it is the practice and communication of a critical analysis.

I don't think you have an argument here, you're just being defensive because I said the pubes are performing a parody of working class. What in your eyes makes them look working class, their inability to write in actual sentences?

Jean - I suspect that XVLX is actually half of The White Pube. She only opened an account yesterday.

Joan 👏👏👏👏👏

I'm with Joan. More bourgeois tells than you could shake a stick at. Particularly the sharp elbows.

I've just been reading a couple of interviews the white pube have done. My conclusion (as an actual working class woman) is that the pair of them are fakers. They're doing a horrible parody of working class young voices, which they are able to get away with and get noticed for precisely because they are not working class.

My view is that identity politics favours the class elites of all marginalised groups. That's why it is such a repellent, anti-collective, hail-thy-leader ideology.

I don't know what class they are-not sure why it matters-but they are self absorbed twats.
There are a LOT of subjects and injustices worth fighting for in this world. The right to get people sacked because they don't think men are literally women is not one of them.

NotMeOhNo wrote: My view is that identity politics favours the class elites of all marginalised groups.

Mark Fisher's Exiting the Vampire Castle (2013) is an interesting essay about class and identity politics (some of the original formatting lost from quotation):

The danger in attacking the Vampires’ Castle is that it can look as if – and it will do everything it can to reinforce this thought – that one is also attacking the struggles against racism, sexism, heterosexism. But, far from being the only legitimate expression of such struggles, the Vampires’ Castle is best understood as a bourgeois-liberal perversion and appropriation of the energy of these movements. The Vampires’ Castle was born the moment when the struggle not to be defined by identitarian categories became the quest to have ‘identities’ recognised by a bourgeois big Other.

The privilege I certainly enjoy as a white male consists in part in my not being aware of my ethnicity and my gender, and it is a sobering and revelatory experience to occasionally be made aware of these blind-spots. But, rather than seeking a world in which everyone achieves freedom from identitarian classification, the Vampires’ Castle seeks to corral people back into identi-camps, where they are forever defined in the terms set by dominant power, crippled by self-consciousness and isolated by a logic of solipsism which insists that we cannot understand one another unless we belong to the same identity group.

I’ve noticed a fascinating magical inversion projection-disavowal mechanism whereby the sheer mention of class is now automatically treated as if that means one is trying to downgrade the importance of race and gender. In fact, the exact opposite is the case, as the Vampires’ Castle uses an ultimately liberal understanding of race and gender to obfuscate class. In all of the absurd and traumatic twitterstorms about privilege earlier this year it was noticeable that the discussion of class privilege was entirely absent. The task, as ever, remains the articulation of class, gender and race – but the founding move of the Vampires’ Castle is the dis-articulation of class from other categories.

www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/mark-fisher/exiting-vampire-castle