Why can’t all women see the dangers?

[Couragetocourage]

I’m having another wobble about all this. I’m watching women I agree with in almost every other political view, and yet they disagree with me about the dangers of self-ID. Why can’t they see it? I understand why men can’t, but women? Labour women MPs, who clearly have thought about the issue, disagree about the dangers. Why? we're not wrong are we!?

Probably because they don't experience much danger in their lives. Therefore it's hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

They can't see it having any impact on their life. Until it does.

I worry, can we do anything about it?

Perhaps they are women who have never dealt with manipulative, abusive behaviour and gaslighting? I think once you have, you can see it quite easily.

It's that I was drawing on most when I first picked up on what was going on here. I've learned to trust my gut when something is "off" and sure enough, the more digging I did, the more I saw that told me exactly why my alarm bells were ringing.

Perhaps because they believe that the people they will be sharing a space with are sans penis and feel safe. Perhaps they don’t know about the 80-85% still “intact” so to speak.

But people like Angela Raynor, she was just a normal woman before she was an MP, not someone so privileged that she shouldn't understand the worry. Even the privileged women MPs won't be so privileged that they can't be harassed and intimidated by men. I cannot understand.

I think a lot of women want to be nice, especially to people who say they've experienced discrimination, bullying, low self-esteem etc. Supporting self ID is one way of being nice.

I'm not a nice person so I ask awkward questions. This is not well-received by my nicer friends, but I'm not nice enough to stop doing it.

The demonisation of women who disagree with TWAW has been a very effective approach.
Calling us "terfs" with accompanying insults, outrage and offence, at every opportunity has worked to make normal women think to themselves

"I'm a nice person. I'm not a bigot. Those other women must be awful I'm definitely not like them" and a tribal mindset is formed.

It takes an awful lot to apply critical thinking to an argument with one viewpoint demonised so relentlessly.

Perhaps because they believe that the people they will be sharing a space with are sans penis and feel safe. Perhaps they don’t know about the 80-85% still “intact” so to speak.

I think this is the case for the majority of women in the country. They haven't really heard about what's happening, and if they're vaguely aware think we're arguing about the 'old fashioned' transsexuals.

But not the MPs who are signing letters in support of TRAs. Not Dawn Butler who refused to meet with women about it last week. Not Sarah Champion or Kate Green. They are or have been shadow minister for women. They absolutely must know if and understand the issues, so why don't they share our concern?

My friend's husband was an abusive dick. when they started dating I could tell immediately he was not a nice guy. We tried to warned her- even when he kicked my door in she thought the sun shone out of his backside, that he was an exciting bad boy.

Fortunately, they are divorced now, but she had years of abuse because of this narcicist, but she could never see what he was like until he left.

Some people won't or can't see and I think this is also the problem.

In part, it's down to experience.

It's like WEP wanting male partners to stay over night on maternity wards. I don't think anyone who made the decision actual stayed overnight on a maternity ward to realise how inappropriate it would be.

I also think many MPs value their career more than women's rights and safeguarding.

People only see what they want to see until something happens. It's also entirely possible that these people haven't encountered real life trans people, only read theories about them.

Here’s an analogy.

I worked for a big Health and Social Care company. Enormous problems recruiting women for social care roles, couldn't get them to increase their part time hours, badgered them to work late and do last minute shifts, managers got more and more pissed off at the high turnover and unwillingness to pick up extra hours.
I started talking to the Board about pay increases.

I asked the Board if they realised the tax credit and housing benefit system meant that any £1 given to them as an increase would be clawed back at 79 pence in the pound with reductions in the tax credits, that working extra hours would push them into a different band meaning they could lose a whole chunk, and that this was done in arrears annually so they may find working 20 or30 extra hours in a year would mean that the following year their credits were reduced and they had to have the overpayment clawed back.
And that housing benefit could at anytime check payslips and cut rent payments if they had done overtime.
Nope, not one manager, or Board member I spoke to had any idea about his, not a single inkling. The CEO was shocked, I saw him a week after my explanation and he said, I’m embarrassed, my wife works in CAB and I asked her if what you said was true and she said yes, she advises on this all the time. So this CEO had been running this business for years having no idea what the real facts for his workforce was whilst his wife was dealing with it every day.
(and you wonder why Universal Credit is a mess?)
So people in comfy jobs, middle class lives, big cars, blah blah (I am one of them) have no idea about the reality of the less well off.
Same here with this violence against women and girls and aggression about boundaries. They think prisons are an abstract idea to be kind about, refuges, changing rooms etc... no real-world knowledge of the reality when you are at in income level that insulates you.

So that’s my take on this, they can’t see it so it does not exist.

Women in politics - Because they want to get ahead and there is enormous politics being exerted behind the scenes.

Women not in politics - just haven't thought it through. Take the lead from Stonewall etc as trusted brands.

All women - shit scared of disagreeing with angry people - whether they're conscious of it or not.

I think it's the easier thing to do. Honestly. It's much simpler to think "it will never happen, these women are scaremongering." And keep saying one is super lovely and right-on liberal.
They see each example such as Karen White as a one-off, rather than a pattern that demonstrates a severe systems failure, the logical endpoint of "transwomen are women," and that this will only get worse because males are not females, no matter how those males feel.
I think many people can't look at the problem in the face, because it's too frightening.

I'm not a nice person so I ask awkward questions. This is not well-received by my nicer friends, but I'm not nice enough to stop doing it.

Here's to not being so nice that you get walked all over 🍷

Because we're conditioned to be carers and to be inclusive

I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people do not think things through. They follow the herd. If their peers say it is okay, they accept that, possibly also because not doing so might have negative effects on their career or their social lives. Subconsciously they protect themselves by not questioning stuff. And they are right. Look what happened with the Iraq war. A war of aggression based on lies. It was hard not to see that. Those journalists who called the politicians out were fired from the NYT and MSNBC. They never bounced back. The others made great careers. Doesn‘t matter they got Iraq wrong and any war thereafter. And the same pattern is obvious for politicians and people in the intelligence community.

I don't think anyone who made the decision actual stayed overnight on a maternity ward to realise how inappropriate it would be.

Please forgive my inexperience on the matter, might I ask how it's inappropriate?

Sheep, they are all sheep. Being herded around by autogynephilic sheep dogs.

I simply can't get my head around the batshit craziness of saying "It's dangerous for men in the gents, because men are violent, so men have to come into the ladies where they'll be safe". Or something. That's what it boils down to, isn't it? Men are dangerous, so some men need us to be human shields for them? While claiming they're not like the dangerous one at all at all.

I do wonder if it's possible that most women think that most transparent are post-op and thus 'past the point of no return' - and therefore deserving of sympathy and pity for their plight.

couragetocourage
Although few have spoken out (surprisingly few of any party have), only 50% of Labour MPs favour self-id, while 28% oppose it and the rest don't know. Source: Comres survey of MPs, www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/MPs-and-Transgender-Issues-October-2018-Tables.pdf

The shadow cabinet policy appears to be in favour of self-id, but Keir Starmer on Question Time sounded very cautious, and Jenny Chapman told The Westminster Hour that while pro-self-id she was worried about the implications for refuges and prisons - an incoherent position, sadly.

I'm not a nice person so I ask awkward questions. This is not well-received by my nicer friends, but I'm not nice enough to stop doing it.

I think I might be your long lost sister Cards

Ffs this autocorrect crap is doing it after I post, I swear.

most transwomen