AIBU to refuse to use 'preferred pronouns'?

[BonBonns]

If someone presents themselves as transgender and says they want to be known as 'she' do I have to do that?

Do I have no freedom of speech?

I do not believe people can change sex.

I do not believe that a man can become a woman. With pronoun use. With hormones. With dresses or lipstick. With surgery.

It is just NOT my personal belief.

Is it a hate crime to refer to someone born male as a man against their will?

Even if it is against mine?

Where would that end?

I am atheist. Do I have to say I believe in God to appease a Catholic? Am I forced to refer to a priest as 'Father' even though I don't follow that religion?

If someone is called David but wants to be called Dave am I to be investigated if I choose to continue using David?

Isn't this madness?

How can my own beliefs come 2nd to someone else's delusions?

It is biology. It is science. It is common sense.

A man cannot become a woman any more than I can become 23 again or an antelope.

YANBU, OP.
The pronoun silliness always makes me want to declare that my pronouns are I/me/mine/myself instead of she/her/hers/herself. Let people have fun with that one.
As a female person (birthed babies and all,) I like the idea of abolishing sexed pronouns and just calling everyone "he" as the unisex pronoun Wouldn't bother me or most females I know in the least!
I would tend to avoid using pronouns altogether if the person was in the room, and either use their name if I knew it, or a physical descriptor if I didn't ("that tall person in the red coat over there.") Otherwise I'd use accurate sexed pronouns.

I’d just use their name and them/they/their. I’d make a point of it and if anybody objected I’d say it’s a neutral pronoun. It’s my choice what pronouns I use for someone and as long as it’s polite what’s the problem? Take that to HR and watch it fly.

Well put silentcrow It is all part of the power and control and pushing boundaries isn't it.

This thread is hilarious.

When would you need to call anyone by a pronoun? Presumably you don’t use pronouns face-to-face. And, in e mails, you can easily avoid pronouns by just using a name.

Honesty can be rude.

‘Jane, at the office, is really fat. She insists that at 5’4 and 12 stone she is normal weighted. I have also found out that her parents have never been married. I cannot believe that I was censored for excluding the fat bastard from the sponsored walk invitation. After all I refuse in colluding in denial of an obvious truth and she can hardly walk 200m, let alone 10 miles....’

This thread is interesting. Being ‘nice’ for so long, nice and accommodating, is what got us Karen White.

larrygrylls
But why is there any need to mention Jane's weight, or her parents' marital status? And what would that have to do with whether or not she does a sponsored walk?
Whereas you use pronouns all the time. One example is any sort of group chat/meeting - "John said he'll do X, so if I handle Y..."
Or there's the issue of a large open space or a place with thin walls where they could overhear the pronoun used - for instance if someone wanted to speak with John, you might say "Yes, he's at that desk over there."
You can substitute names of course, (as I would do) but the automatic inclination is to use pronouns instead of repeat a person's name constantly. (John says John can do Y. If John can do that, can you do X, Robin?)

This feels wrong to me, why not use the pronoun he/ she prefers? Does every conversation with a transperson have to be political? Suppose you work with her everyday? Suppose she is a friend?

There was a lovely quote from a transwoman on here recently. I can't find it. The gist was, 'if you use male pronouns you honour where I came from, if you use female pronouns you honour where I want to be, both are fine'.

That seemed like a very healthily reframed approach. It doesn't erase women or compel speech.

‚Dragon‘ that is a beautiful line. And, indeed, a healthy approach, as it makes one independent of other‘s perceptions. I love it.

The pronoun silliness always makes me want to declare that my pronouns are I/me/mine/myself instead
oh my goodness

Larrygrylls
Whaa? Of course calling someone fat is rude. And wtf of course you use pronouns when you're with someone

"Sorry we're late, we missed the bus because of Sophie and her terrible sense of direction" "hey Kim! It was your fault not mine! honestly this girl. She wouldn't know a map from a copy of cosmo"

Or yknow "say bye bye little man" "awe isn't he the cutest"

OP I'd take your average man's approach to transppl which is to half-heartedly use correct pronouns when the person is present but when they're not present ditch the lot of it and use the real pronouns.
You really should hear how blokes refer to Transpeople. It's mostly not very forgiving.

Do I have to call Karen White 'she'? If not, why not? What about Jess Bradley? If I refer to Jess getting 'his penis' out in public instead of 'her penis' is that me 'not being very nice"?

Is there a behaviour threshold for getting the pronoun you want? What is that threshold? Sexual assault, indecent exposure, being derogatory about women in twitter? Who is the judge of that?

Do I have to call Pips Bunce' she' on the days Pips decides to turn up to work in a dress?

I have said on other threads, I generally will use the correct pronouns if that person has been respectful towards others, but I find this whole concept of 'misgendering' interesting.

Has there been another group in recent history who has demanded that people refer to them as something they are not, for the sake of 'being nice'?

A better analogy re fat ppl would be an anorexic who is dangerously underweight but believes herself to be hideously fat, insisting that everyone refers to her and describes her as "fat" even when we are not with her, and threatening to kill herself if we don't.

The pronoun silliness always makes me want to declare that my pronouns are I/me/mine/myself instead

I’ve never been asked for my pronouns before but I’m definitely doing this if I ever am!

"Presumably you don't use pronouns face to face"

Of course you do. I leading last week a team that had an FTM and it was very awkward when I stumbled over a simple schedule.
"You go with Alex and hand her - um, him - the laptop when you've finished using it."
My brain/eyes were telling me that the person on my team was a woman, but I had just been informed he defined himself as male.

Some people really struggle with lying.

Dh won’t say ‘you look nice’ if I look terrible or ‘the food was lovely’ ‘you sing brilliantly’.

It hardly seems fair or kind to turn people into liars, does it?

You are entitled to think that you cannot change sex and ‘become’ a woman. However, using the pronouns that you have been asked to use is just common courtesy, pronouns do not actually determine sex or there’d be a lot less gender disappointment around.

Much in the same way that if you had a friend who was pregnant and happy for people to refer to her bump as ‘it’ then once that baby was born if you continue to refer to the baby as ‘it’ that would be considered rude. Transgender people face enough hate and discrimination in life without people refusing to do something as simple as try and use a particular pronoun.

I also find your earlier statement that you can always tell trans women from women to be especially ignorant, OP.

Anorexia and fat people who think they are a normal weight are both good analogies of body dysmorphia.

Some of the examples of using pronouns in normal speech above really strain grammar. And how hard is it just to use a name instead?

There are lots of instances where white lies are better than the truth; I think that this is one of them. Clearly where rights are being conflicted biological honesty is important, but calling a trans woman she in a workplace does not seem to be one of them.

FGS. Believe what you know to be true.
Being rude to someone is just rude. Yes you should call a catholic priest Father if he asks you to. Yes you should call a doctor Dr if they ask you to. Yes if someone tells you their name is Dave you shouldn't call them something else. What you are advocating isn't 'being truthful' or 'having principles'. It is just rudeness.

Let’s put it the media we have transwomen who at a glance will pass, surgery, media training and that’s convenient for the trans cause

Women’s bodies are different we usually have smaller builds, our hands, head, neck are smaller we walk differently. Even in Thailand where the men who have transitioned are of a similar size to European woman there is still something that is different regardless of the treatments and operations have had

I doubt many truly pass and I believe the vast majority of the time women will be able to tell. Most of time that isn’t an issue but at times it is why should women and girls feel concerned that the space they are in might not be just female

I don't think it's rude to reference the truth in regards to a fact that is neutral (being male or female isn't equivalent to being fat or anorexic,) and actually pertinent.
I actually think it's rude to expect me to lie about someone's sex.
Also, a Dr actually IS a doctor.
And actually no one should be expected to call a religious figure by their religious title if they aren't of that religion. Just as we shouldn't expect everyone to spell God "G--d" or to say "peace be upon him" after mentioning the prophet Mohammad, or for all females to cover our hair, etc etc.

Studies have proven that the brains of transgender people align more closely with their preferred gender than their birth one, e.g, larger cerebellum in women etc, and some have lower hormone levels mimetic of their preferred gender.

Which studies? Peer-reviewed studies in respected journals? Please cite your sources.

call a catholic priest Father if he asks you to. Yes you should call a doctor Dr if they ask you

Sure, I’ll call anyone who identifies as a catholic priest and anyone who fancies identifying as a doctor.

May I call anyone who

If David asks to be called Harold shipman must I indulge him?