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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

AIBU to refuse to use 'preferred pronouns'?

303 replies

BonBonns · 21/10/2018 22:14

If someone presents themselves as transgender and says they want to be known as 'she' do I have to do that?

Do I have no freedom of speech?

I do not believe people can change sex.

I do not believe that a man can become a woman. With pronoun use. With hormones. With dresses or lipstick. With surgery.

It is just NOT my personal belief.

Is it a hate crime to refer to someone born male as a man against their will?

Even if it is against mine?

Where would that end?

I am atheist. Do I have to say I believe in God to appease a Catholic? Am I forced to refer to a priest as 'Father' even though I don't follow that religion?

If someone is called David but wants to be called Dave am I to be investigated if I choose to continue using David?

Isn't this madness?

How can my own beliefs come 2nd to someone else's delusions?

It is biology. It is science. It is common sense.

A man cannot become a woman any more than I can become 23 again or an antelope.

OP posts:
breastfeedingclownfish · 21/10/2018 23:19

I'm not doing it

The only way this shit is allowed is if we comply. Say no.

Charliethefeminist · 21/10/2018 23:19

If only Germaine Bunbury had been around earlier, I could have been reading my thriller. Curses.

Bespin · 21/10/2018 23:20

again you have the right to fight your employer all the way but if they have a equility policy and you clearly don't choose to follow it then they have the right to fire you for not following policy. I'd support your right to do that..again no one can question your belief but if you can not respect others then they have the right to ask you to leave.

deepwatersolo · 21/10/2018 23:21

I don't pander to people who bully and aggressively attempt to dictate even the language I can use to define myself.

This, for sure. That would be the point where Lisa Muggeridge would say 'you demonstrated the behaviour of an abusive male, you have demonstrated who and what you are', and I would probably make a point to say 'he'.

deepwatersolo · 21/10/2018 23:23

the right to fight your employer all the way but if they have a equility policy

I consider that ccompelled speech, too, and I consider the employer abusive. What will be next, will my boss tell me who to vote for?

PositivelyPERF · 21/10/2018 23:24

stop trying to bully the OP, Bespin. She doesn’t have to use ANY pronouns, if she thinks it through. You can’t force people to follow your peculiar beliefs.

deepwatersolo · 21/10/2018 23:24

Yeah, I'll take Bunbury's newest book to bed and read a bit.

starzig · 21/10/2018 23:26

You can call someone what you like but if you do so deliberately knowing they would dislike it or it would upset them then that is just plain rude and really would make you not a very nice person.

Charliethefeminist · 21/10/2018 23:27

I think it's plain rude and not very nice to force me to express a belief I don't hold, when it upsets and invalidates me

PositivelyPERF · 21/10/2018 23:29

would make you not a very nice person.

Be ‘nice’ women. There’s a bunch of good girls, or the TRAs might get upset.

Bespin · 21/10/2018 23:29

I keep. saying she does not have to use any people really don't but when they don't there are. social and if in a work environment employment consequences to not doing so if supporting someone in there belief is bullying now then I'm good.

HilltopTractor · 21/10/2018 23:29

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starzig · 21/10/2018 23:31

I like to be nice to many people not just 1 group. I try to not go out my way to antagonise anyone.

Bespin · 21/10/2018 23:31

I mean don't people in general want to approach things in a way that is nice no matter there gender or

PositivelyPERF · 21/10/2018 23:32

I try not to let myself be bullied into saying I accept false gods. I’m happy with that.

HilltopTractor · 21/10/2018 23:32

I am now leaving this thread.

selfidentifyinggiraffe · 21/10/2018 23:32

Personally I would use preferred pronouns IRL. I wouldn't believe them, it would annoy me after. But I'm too polite and I don't have any desire to personally upset anyone or fuel the false belief of some of my friends who think I'm transphobic because I don't believe transwomen are women.

So I would probably speak to and interact with transwomen using their preferred name and pronouns... also because I don't really have a problem with transpeople (I do with transkids as I feel it's abusive to tell a child their born in the wrong body) I have a problem with transactivists and the mysogenistic plans to allow men to legally enter women's spaces more easily at all and I think if I go around referring to them as he/him to themselves and friends and colleagues who aren't yet peaked... one I hurt their feelings which as a generalisation I don't care about but being personal towards one individual I do and two, I think people will misread me as being transphobic and a deliberately unkind person whereas I'd rather they think... yeah actually she has a point when they hear me talk

Bouchie · 21/10/2018 23:33

well I would think you were a bit of a rude twat tbh. and I fucking hate self Iding

Bespin · 21/10/2018 23:34

Yes you could avoid them altogether again you have that option.i don't think anyone would want to knowingly go around upsetting people so if you can it's probably for the best. I have a belief that in real life when not on here most people act in a positive way towards other no matter what there beleifs are

PositivelyPERF · 21/10/2018 23:36

Thankfully I’m not concerned about other people’s opinion of me. I’ve long ago stopped pandering to fantasists.

Bouchie · 21/10/2018 23:46

the problem though is that you are trying to change others opinions and people will stop listening if you are rude ( at a time when we really need them to listen). Hearts and minds ...

PandorasBag · 21/10/2018 23:47

I changed my name - first and last - legally over thirty years ago and my mother still calls me by my original first name. (If I was trans, this would be what is called 'dead naming'.) This has effectively destroyed my relationship with my mother. So I think it is a politeness when speaking to somebody to call them the name they prefer. Similarly if referring to them in their hearing, it's a courtesy to use their preferred pronoun.

I am concerned about issues in relation to safeguarding and also about encouraging children to believe they are fine in their own bodies and can be whoever they want to be without harming themselves. But if the person at the opposite desk who was formerly Dave now wants to be Dorothy and to be called 'they' that's fine. The main thing is that Dorothy doesn't eat burgers at their desk or keep yakking on their mobile when I'm trying to concentrate.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 21/10/2018 23:56

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WeWantJustice · 22/10/2018 00:07

No YANBU.

I think there's a real principle at stake here: that of not giving away our right to tell the truth.

There is something extremely sinister in the demand that I pretend that a man is a woman and refer to him as such. I know the term Orwellian is over used, but in this instance, it fits. If you are prepared to pretend that you believe a man is a woman, just to be nice, what else are you going to agree with just to be nice? At what stage will you feel that you need to set a boundary? And here's the thing about boundaries, if you don't set them early and firmly, it's much harder to set them later. If you tolerate this, then what will come next?

There is a perfectly legitimate and serious case for standing up for the right not to use a preferred pronoun and it's nothing to do with being personally rude or mean to another person. It's a political position. The position is that if someone is a man, he does not have the right to force women to pretend that he is a woman and doing so, is an exercise of male power and female subjugation. If you are happy to acquiesce to the demand that you pretend you believe a man is a woman, it becomes much harder for you to stand up against the next encroachment of your boundaries.

And know that what you are dealing with, are men who will not be satisfied with anything less than unconditional, slavish compliance, so just pretending you believe they are women, won't be enough; there will be many more boundaries you will be required to abandon. And with all these situations, you look back at the first time you gave up something and you realise that was the beginning and now you're having to row back.

StrangeLookingParasite · 22/10/2018 00:09

I know I'm probably going to get jumped on by a number of anti trans activists that seem to be on this site but I am past caring now.

Le sigh. There are hardly any (if any at all) "anti trans activists" on this site, just peple who won't consent to supporting other people's beliefs, and who want to defend women's rights. These constant lies and misrepresentations are tiresome.

You could just try not being a total dick?

You there, yes, you women. Just be nice, it's your job. Hmm