AIBU to refuse to use 'preferred pronouns'?

[BonBonns]

If someone presents themselves as transgender and says they want to be known as 'she' do I have to do that?

Do I have no freedom of speech?

I do not believe people can change sex.

I do not believe that a man can become a woman. With pronoun use. With hormones. With dresses or lipstick. With surgery.

It is just NOT my personal belief.

Is it a hate crime to refer to someone born male as a man against their will?

Even if it is against mine?

Where would that end?

I am atheist. Do I have to say I believe in God to appease a Catholic? Am I forced to refer to a priest as 'Father' even though I don't follow that religion?

If someone is called David but wants to be called Dave am I to be investigated if I choose to continue using David?

Isn't this madness?

How can my own beliefs come 2nd to someone else's delusions?

It is biology. It is science. It is common sense.

A man cannot become a woman any more than I can become 23 again or an antelope.

You claim to understand facts and science, yet seem to have a very poor grasp of it. Some people are born with XXY chromosomes or XXYY which gives them little in the way of assigned gender. Studies have proven that the brains of transgender people align more closely with their preferred gender than their birth one, e.g, larger cerebellum in women etc, and some have lower hormone levels mimetic of their preferred gender.

Sorry but.... Wha?

Some people are born with XXY chromosomes or XXYY which gives them little in the way of assigned gender.
XXY is Klinefelters syndrome, which results in a male person who is somewhat physically feminised (potential micro penis, infertility, slight gynomastia,) along with various other negative traits depending on severity, such as issues with intellectual development.
48XXYY is a serious condition that males can inherit which causes a myriad of behavioural and intellectual issues, along with health issues, sterility, etc.
I think, ellastellabella you're the one without a great grasp of science.

No one has answered the question about whether I have to call Karen White 'she' or refer to Jess Bradley getting 'her' penis out in public?

If David asks to be called baby David must I indulge him?

If David asks to be called shep and ‘it’ must I indulge him?

Dragon there exist no such studies. There are studies that show in male attracted transwomen some features that on average are in size between male and female averages (but not closer to female than to male). Similar tendencies have apparently been found in homosexual male brains, so it might be a reflection of sexual orientation, not of ‚being trans‘.
No such data have been recorded for the autogynephile ‚lesbians‘, because scientists understand that these are two very distinct conditions of male transsexuality.
Ironically, the autogynephiles now hide behind brain scans that have nothing to do with them.

Re Karen white: Hard core line is she and Ian Huntley et al are heinous women but women nevertheless therefore don’t be rude.

More moderate line is we don’t have to call her ‘she’ because her penis crimes cancelled out her female membership.

To use your example- if someone wanted to be called Dave and you insisted on calling them David because you have freedom of speech, even though you had been asked not to and Dave had said it was upsetting to be called David - yes you would be being unreasonable. If Dave doesn’t want to be David anymore then that’s Dave’s business. Dave can’t stop you saying David, but to do so in the knowledge that it’s causing upset makes you quite a nasty person in my book.

If David asks to be called baby David must I indulge him?

Or Lucy? While he wears his adult nappy and tortures 10 year old girls?

Transgender people face enough hate and discrimination in life without people refusing to do something as simple as try and use a particular pronoun

Using the correct sex pronoun is not ‘discrimination’. It’s actually something everyone does easily and without thinking.

I also find your earlier statement that you can always tell trans women from women to be especially ignorant, OP

But it isn’t, it’s accurate.

Either transgender people are constantly facing discrimination for being transgender, therefore everyone can tell and identify them as such by sight, or they’re passing as the sex they feel and don’t then suffer discrimination. It can’t be both. We are constantly told we, as in human beings who have been mostly correctly identifying someone’s sex our whole lives, are sharing spaces with transgender people and we just don’t know it. Yet at the same time they suffer misgendering and other so-called discrimination because they’re transgender. But how can people tell? Both statements cannot be true.

Not calling David Lucy is nasty and unkind.

We must indulge everyone in their fantasies otherwise we are bad.

Scrumple,

You say being male or female is ‘neutral’ (whatever that means). I assume you mean it is a scientific fact. Fat, on that basis, is also ‘neutral’, it merely means having more adipose tissue than required to be healthy.

I think that ‘neutral’ is a very subjective judgment.

Studies have proven that the brains of transgender people align more closely with their preferred gender than their birth one, e.g, larger cerebellum in women etc, and some have lower hormone levels mimetic of their preferred gender

Not ‘studies’, a single study, on those who had been on hormones, and were adults. I don’t think you understand how the brain works 😬

I am fine with anything until it harms another.

I don’t necessarily understand what it means to be Trans, in the light of gender and sex, and I am gender critical. I have had my say on how the TWAW ideaology affects women. I am vigorously anti TW competing on an equal level in sex-segregated sport.

But if a TW prefers to be called she, it is no skin off my nose and it seems rude and provocative to address them otherwise.

You say being male or female is ‘neutral’ (whatever that means). I assume you mean it is a scientific fact. Fat, on that basis, is also ‘neutral’, it merely means having more adipose tissue than required to be healthy.
Being male or female (or rather, being referred to as "he" or "she" as part of communication,) is merely a neutral aspect of life. Being "fat" or "anorexic" (not a part of communication,) are socially considered negative more than neutral.

What if David wants to be called HRH David?

How rude is it not to indulge him?

Try watching this, a simple, comprehensive breakdown on something my SIL has been a part of a research team at Durham for nearly a decade.

As far as I'm aware, I only know one transgender person, a "man" who used to be a woman. I only know this through my role in HR. Out of over 100 staff, only 3 people know about the original gender of the person. To everyone else, he's a man and there is nothing to indicate or provide a clue that he was ever otherwise. I think to start openly calling him "she", when he has thoroughly adopted a male persona, would be rather cruel and unkind.

Having said that, I do agree that a person cannot change his/her biological sex; it is only their outward appearance, mannerisms, voice, attitude etc that change.

ellastellabella peer reviewed studies, thanks. Not YouTube videos. Given your complete lack of understanding of Klinefelters and 48XXYY syndrome, I'd prefer actual studies to wasting my time on a popsci video.

ellastellabella

No. The lady brain theory is sexist bullshit

I used to out of politeness. Now I just use "they" or the person's name.

I'll no longer be complicit in harmful (and very patronising) lies just to be nice.

What if you are a transwoman, you present as trans, make everyone call you 'she' and shout about how you should be allowed to use the female changing rooms..... But then you go for a brain scan and it turns out the scan shows you just a bog standard male?

What happens then? Do you get shoved out from beneath the trans umbrella into the rain?

Not ‘studies’, a single study, on those who had been on hormones, and were adults.

This. Also, brains are plastic so its difficult to tell what is inherent.

And notice in the video even 'Gigi' says that generally males and females have certain brain characteristics. If a female is good at spatial awareness it doesn't mean she has a 'male brain', even though the spatial awareness bit tends to be more prevelant in males (Sorry for the non sciencey terminology!)

That was my understanding too deepwatersolo. I have yet to see anything convincing.

Peer-reviewed, published, relevant results are what count. Particularly when redefining half of the population!

I’m a woman. I’ve spent most of my life in a male dominant industry. My first name is obviously female if you’re European but not if you’re Asian. Most of my Asian colleagues assume I’m male and use male pronouns. I only bother correcting them if it’s likely we will interact by phone or in person at some point. So I am a biological woman, who is routinely mis gendered, and it is so far from being the worst thing a man has done or said to me it doesn’t even make the top ten. Maybe not even the top 100.

ellastellabella

You are being deeply unpleasant, irrational and are breaking Mumsnet rules with your abuse and insults. Not exactly helping your cause.