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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Handmaiden bingo

38 replies

XXcstatic · 21/10/2018 08:24

Am friends with an ex-colleague on FB who posted a link to the Stonewall GRA consultation campaign. I foolishly clicked on the comments, and it's Handmaiden Bingo.

Someone - who appears to be a fully functioning adult in her 30s - has actually posted "my feminism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit". I didn't think anyone actually ever said that outside of Twitter & woke student groups.

Then a gay man wades in with how passionate he is about TW being women and how he always accompanies his daughters into the Ladies, and it's fine Hmm, so why do we all bang on about toilets and potential predators?

Next comes another adult woman upset that we treat "all men as if they are rapists, and who are we (women) to say that TW are not women?". Then she thinks that the solution is to be less bothered about gender stereotypes - apparently without noticing that TRA ideology depends entirely on gender stereotypes,

By this stage, my eyes are rolling so far back in my head that I can hardly read on. One brave soul did post a mild reply concerned about self-ID in women's sport and, in fairness, there wasn't a pile-on but no support either.

It's so depressing that women - and the fathers of girls - are queueing up to give away their rights. My only consolation is that the original post only got a handful of likes, even though the OP has 100s of FB friends.

OP posts:
clarinsgirl · 21/10/2018 08:28

Had a similar experience yesterday - but no one else waded in. I'm hoping I've opened the eyes of an otherwise well educated am intelligent woman to the reality of self id.

It really is terrifying how completely debate and logic have been squashed.

hipsterfun · 21/10/2018 09:42

I feel you, OP.

I’ve been having a two-week long WhatsApp chat with a friend who I thought was a sensible feminist. It’s been eye opening.

Ereshkigal · 21/10/2018 10:11

Someone - who appears to be a fully functioning adult in her 30s - has actually posted "my feminism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit". I didn't think anyone actually ever said that outside of Twitter & woke student groups.

I particularly enjoy it when they post it as the meme with all the curly fronds and leaves around the words.

VickyEadie · 21/10/2018 10:16

Was told by women on facebook yesterday that tw athletes have no innate advantage over women athletes. I could fucking weep .

AneWitche · 21/10/2018 10:18

This one struck me

Then a gay man wades in with how passionate he is about TW being women and how he always accompanies his daughters into the Ladies, and it's fine hmm, so why do we all bang on about toilets and potential predators

So he's in there as a man, and he doesn't realise that with him there any potential predators aren't going to be doing their predator thing with him around?
Berk!

Iused2BanOptimist · 21/10/2018 10:23

I so admire everyone on this board who engages and calmly explains and debates. Because I can barely discuss it without flying off the handle!
I really hate stupid people and quickly lose patience when faced with explaining basic concepts to people who should know better and I'm sorry but I think the whole concept of changing sex, TWAW, sport etc, it's all just rank stupidity of the highest order, all of it. 

Original poster
XXcstatic · 21/10/2018 10:33

Was told by women on facebook yesterday that tw athletes have no innate advantage over women athletes

How can people be this stupid?

I find the best answer to this is to ask (1) why do we have sex-segregated sports? (2) how does identifying as a woman change biology? (you don't need to get into the details of testosterone etc because most TW athletes haven't undergone any medical or surgical transition) and (3) if transition turns you into the opposite sex, why aren't any transmen beating natal men in sports?

OP posts:
OldCrone · 21/10/2018 10:33

Then a gay man wades in with how passionate he is about TW being women and how he always accompanies his daughters into the Ladies

Since when has it been acceptable for a man to take his daughters into the ladies'? Do women accompany their sons into the men's toilets?

sawdustformypony · 21/10/2018 10:58

has actually posted "my feminism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit". I didn't think anyone actually ever said that outside of Twitter & woke student groups.

Nah - It used to be posted on this site loads before the trans issue took over - back in the days of Buffy the Reasonable and chums.

EverardDigby · 21/10/2018 11:09

I'm feeling despondent as a feminist I know in her 50s has posted the Stonewall link to the consultation and there are some wary comments but most are emphasising how TWAW. As for her, she's been fairly privileged, has no experience of sexual assault etc. (as far as I know but I'm fairly confident in saying that) and I just want to say what about those of us who've been so badly damaged we can't even bear to sit next to a man on a bus, but I feel too fragile to get into an argument. On the other hand most other women I've spoken to definitely don't think TWAW but are too scared to say it publicly.

Charliethefeminist · 21/10/2018 11:29

Two of my relatives are busy throwing my daughter's rights and safety at the feet of men. The word 'brave' has used to describe a particularly offensive incursor.

Charliethefeminist · 21/10/2018 11:30

That includes a woman in her 50s and a woke bro.

VickyEadie · 21/10/2018 13:09

Two of my relatives are busy throwing my daughter's rights and safety at the feet of men. The word 'brave' has used to describe a particularly offensive incursor.

Indeed. I just can't bear how both men and women are blithely tossing (word used on purpose) the rights of girls and women "at the feet of men" and they just cannot see what they're doing.

NeurotrashWarrior · 21/10/2018 13:32

I hear you.

I had to go out for the day to a no signal area to de frag from the full card handmaiden bingo I'd seen.

TheSteakBakeOfAwesome · 21/10/2018 14:54

I had the corker on my FB of "as a non binary asexual person who has given birth to, and breastfed 3 children..."

No hint of irony or how fucking ridiculous it sounded.

Belindabauer · 21/10/2018 14:58

Wtf is a man doing in the women's toilets?

He should take them into the men's or let them go alone into the womens.
Why won't he let them go alone? Interesting.

Materialist · 21/10/2018 14:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amandadecabernet · 21/10/2018 15:06

TheSteakBakeOfAwesome tell ze they're spouting actual literal violence and transphobia by using the word b*stfeeding. Any fule kno it's chestfeeding.

Tellin · 21/10/2018 15:06

Why does a gay man take his daughters into the ladies in the first place? Why not into the men’s? I suspect if he reflected on that, he’d see the problem with mixed sex facilities.

Excellent point. The mental gymnastics to compute that and believe that TWAW would probably make his head explode. This is the problem with the entire debate though; it's predicated on illogical, indefensible, circular arguments. That's why we must simply believe and never, ever question. It makes me sad when women in particular fail to grasp this and willingly adhere to the bullshit gender stereotypes that have oppressed us since forever.

moofolk · 21/10/2018 15:08

Handmaiden bingo I've had over the last few days (can someone make cards?). This is just a few.

"by not letting TW into CIS women's safe spaces you are effectively saying that they should be assaulted on the street".

"I see that you are also hostile to sex workers"

"Trans athletes have so much to battle against and when they succeed - against all odds - they are not credited with this success"

"Any system will be abused we cannot come at a law from a position of hate, we should choose hope"

"Linking to statistics on trans sex offenders could be seen as hateful to a trans person reading it"

"invalidating identity" So many around thinking that they do not to exist, these can never be explained.

On me explaining that I think the concept of gender is harmful "oh well I'm agender. I do not identify with any gender". But you think the idea of enshrining gender into law is great. OK...

clarinsgirl · 21/10/2018 15:14

I hear you Optimist, generally I feel rage at the breathtaking stupidity too. The phrase 'I just want everyone to be happy and be who they want to be' was used. I explained that although a lovely sentiment, this would mean rapists get be rapists, probably in women's hospital wards or prisons. The woman has a PhD and has not lead a sheltered life, I just don't understand why there is such ignorance around the reality of self id.

Fallingirl · 21/10/2018 15:25

The quote ”my feminism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit" comes from Flavia Dzodan, on her blog tigerbeatdown.com.

It is several years old, and she was talking about black women, in a critique of one of the first slutwalks in the US, where a white woman was holding a sign stating “women are the n*ggers of the world”.

Flavia was talking about the implicit racism in slutwalk at the time, and not about including men.

DustOffYourHighestHopes · 21/10/2018 15:31

Agree, what’s the issue about intersectional feminism?

Vixxxy · 21/10/2018 15:35

I genuinely cannot reply to idiots like this, as I don't have the patience. I admire people like datun and bowlofbabelfish, who can deal with it all for ages, seemingly without even getting a little bit angry at the stupidity.

How the fuck do so many 'feminists' not actually understand intersectionality and think that it means you should include men? Its bonkers.

stillathing · 21/10/2018 15:41

Trans men are where trans intersects with feminism. It's another appropriated term used without fully understanding HOW to use it.

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