How can people seriously believe....

[PerverseConverse]

That there is scientific basis to support that transwomen are women and trans men are not women?

Facebook is awash tonight (thanks Posie ) with women saying that this sign in a cafe (pictured) is perfectly ok and that terfs (can I use the full word on here? Sorry if not) can't be feminists as they don't include all women. All women meaning men identifying as women.

I was following a discussion based on a review of the cafe but when I read that there is a "bunch of science behind it" that transwomen are not men I had to give up trying to get my scientific head round what she was trying to say.

Where do people get these ideas from and then claim that science supports them?

I don't want to get into the whole toilet debate here, I'm purely astounded as to how people come up with this and believe it to be supported by science. But then there are people who believe the earth is flat....

Lack of scientific literacy is a massive problem. It's all fun and homeopathy until you start to get shit like this.

Anyone who believes some women have a penis needs to give their head the most enormous wobble.

That cafe looks like a health hazard (and is perhaps not a cafe at all but someone who has fashioned their kitchen in the style of Steptoe's yard meets Waynetta Slob).

Might I enquire what their hygiene rating is?

Okay, I may have missed the point.

What a revolting looking cafe. Is that not just a filthy kitchen?

shhh. it identifies as a cafe
you might be guilty of literal violence Pop

Ha. Cross-posted with Charlie.

Have these people not heard of Zoflora? Or Marie Kondo?

BOYCOTT on grounds of salmonella principle

Charlie

Okay, let's get back to the serious issue at hand. Sorry, OP.

Just as a general point. Whenever someone says "a bunch of science" you know that they are talking a whole other galaxy of bollocks.

That worktop though.

I will freely admit to being a complete slattern, but fuck me backwards with a wet banana, that "cafe". Eurgh.

Back on track - the only answer I can come up with is "because they are incredibly thick."

If any of you follow Posie on Facebook then feel free to join in or just go to The Greenhouse Deptford on Facebook and leave a review. Then the intellectually challenged will come along and call you a terf, claim some science, argue that men are women and vice versa and call you transphobic.

I will freely admit to being a complete slattern, but fuck me backwards with a wet banana, that "cafe". Eurgh.

I am the sluttiest slattern. Which is why I quite like to escape to cafes. Which are clean.

^ Didn't notice the dirt/mucky cafe...

^ I'm not sure my "gender identity" matches the sex I was "assigned at birth" after all. Hmmm.

MaybeWomaninBootsMaybeNot

I do have the autism excuse though. Think I missed Female Socialisation 101: Cleaning. Part 1. Spotting the grub.

I've posted this before and people misunderstood me. So I hope I can explain well this time. It was a thread about whether or not you doubt yourself...I know three people: one a Doctor of Science, another studying reproductive medicine and a senior clinical nurse...all of them, when I talk to them about this say it's not actually clear cut and that the "science" isn't as straight forward as you might think. Not being scientifically literate I can't argue with them.
Thank goodness for the FWR thread. Keeps me sane!

I raised the issue of the consultation with a group of male friends last night, all with scientific/engineering backgrounds, all well-educated. One actually stated that if a man declared himself a woman then he was a woman and he really appeared to believe that this man then "became" a woman. Another refused to acknowledge that, as a biological male, he would never experience a menstrual cycle. I'm considering going round and posting a few supplies through his door for when he gets his first period. There were three of them telling me I was hysterical for having concerns about self ID . Apparently I should be concerned about lesbians in women only spaces. I have lost all respect for them now.

They clearly don't follow Mrs Hinch.

Not that I do either but fuck me is it really a cafe?

Terms not welcome! Neither is a tidy up by the looks of it.

Less time writing stupid notes more time having a tidy up luv.

I've had conversations about this with some friends who are very educated, and scientifically literate, but also cannot see this issue clearly. Trans activists have done a right number on people by co-opting intersex. I found it helpful to point out the basics of the birds and the bees, ask if we have a third gamete, and to actually define male/female. What is the point of even having two categories if they are meaningless because we are ignoring anatomy/genetics/physiology/etc, and when did we start defining human reproductive sex in terms of someone's feelings about their body?
Really, it's not actually scientific knowledge or education. Most people see it as a political question, I think. People use trans activist talking points as a protective mechanism so they don't have to think critically, because they don't want to seem unkind.

That is scary re the scientists. What on Earth can they be thinking??

One actually stated that if a man declared himself a woman then he was a woman and he really appeared to believe that this man then "became" a woman.

That is not science, that is religion.

Another refused to acknowledge that, as a biological male, he would never experience a menstrual cycle.

Aand that is near-terminal stupidity.

I am so tired of the lies. I admire the bravery of those of you who can stand this for long periods of time, but I'm finding it very, very difficult.

Womaninboots I am very familiar having to learn about Part 1: spotting the grub, I tend to go to appendix iii: Cleaning Mania - wherein our protagonist has spotted ALL the grub at once and it must ALL be cleaned IMMEDIATELY.

Hooray for ASD 😅 I’m having to try really really hard to not be consumed by the Mrs hinch craze.

Who is Mrs Hinch?

My lovely and Dear friend just told me that if we get to the point when men say they are women to win awards it meams that feminism has won

Who is Mrs Hinch?

No idea but I hear she usually identifies as Mr Hinch on Monday's and fridays

strangelookingparasite I honestly thought they would be "on side". I was genuinely upset by their responses. But more baffled as to how people who deal with the practical and the logical in their jobs could genuinely hold those views. I agree that it is in part political- one is a Labour party member and a big Jeremy Cornyn supporter and once I'd informed him of JC's stance on the matter he stated that JC would have good reason to hold that view and he would therefore support it. Critical thinking is obviously not encouraged in the Labour party!

Mrs Hinch is like flylady I think, internet based cleaning guru.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2018/10/15/mrs-hinch-and-her-cleaning-obsession-is-dragging-women-back-to-the-1950s-8039149/amp/

Mrs Hinch has passed me by too..