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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times 'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim (Natalie Bird)''.Article refers to Zoe O'Connell & Sarah Brown

338 replies

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 09:40

article by Lucy Bannerman
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Hopefully many LibDem Members will stand in support of Natalie Bird.

O'Connell and Brown make a mockery of the LibDem priciples and their bullying abusive behaviour has been allowed to run unchecked within the party.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.

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LorettasBox · 19/10/2018 18:02

Whatever your opinion on how in touch with reality someone is who says a transwoman is an adult human female, you have to enjoy the political nous of a politician who says "Fuck off and vote for someone else!"

deepwatersolo · 19/10/2018 18:07

Whatever your opinion on how in touch with reality someone is who says a transwoman is an adult human female, you have to enjoy the political nous of a politician who says "Fuck off and vote for someone else!"

Personally, I can't overcome a politician demanding their peers recite stuff that makes no sense using words they can't define. And it ain't even a representative of the fascists, where this type of stuff would at least have some tradition.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:08

@QuietContraryMary

No they got it, the issue was that there was a 75% level required, which they did reach, HOWEVER, they are scared in the future that if they want to remove people for wrongthink then they might not reach 75%, so they have changed the rules to make it easier.

I'm talking about the federal Party disciplinary procedure, the RA's no confidence system is still at 75%.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:12

@LorettasBox Well im not a politician, i've never stood and will never stand for public office

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 18:14

There is a very different story about how this vote was held to the one I've heard.

'Kangaroo Court' and 'witch trial' by the inner clique due the complete absence of transparency are the phrases that spring to mind.

Natalie's crime is her face didn't fit. And the vote was a way to legitimise the travesty of the way she was removed by claiming to be democratic.

Well it was democratic if you regard China as a bastion of free speech and liberal democracy.

To anyone else it just looks like a stitch up.

RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 18:18

The Times has caught you all red handed.

Whether it goes anywhere from now remains to be seen, but it wasn't a vote that resembles anything like the standards and values the LDs are supposed to.

The whole group should be suspended from the federation for what went on.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:21

RedToothBrush Well thats absolute crap, by "innter clique" you mean the people who founded the organisation, run it on a day to day basis and are continually elected to senior roles by the membership. It was entirely democratic and legitimate for the membership (not the notable members) to bin her when they didn't want her as Chair anymore. Thats how democracy works, nobody is entitled to stay as Chair when the membership doesn't want them to be Chair anymore.

LorettasBox · 19/10/2018 18:22

Sorospaysme, cool story bro. You're involved in politics, aligned with a political party running for elected office, and you don't want to get elected. Permanent protestor, then, rather than politician.

Don't @ me, btw.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:24

This reply has been deleted

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SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:25

@LorettasBox the vast majority of people who are involved in political parties don't stand for election. I have a life and a career away from politics and I would much rather support people who would make better elected politicians than myself.

acivilcontract · 19/10/2018 18:26

The lib dems are a broad centrist group, the leadership, like every other political party may be signed up to the trans agenda but plenty like DH, myself and other run of the mill members aren't.
I showed DH the picture of the three cyclists this week and he was taken aback that he was meant to view the middle one as female and the competition as fair. I don't actually know any blokes who would think differently. I suspect the woke takeover is much more surface acceptance than actual belief.

FatherBuzzCagney · 19/10/2018 18:27

You're involved in politics, aligned with a political party running for elected office, and you don't want to get elected

Well it is the Lib Dems. No-one could possibly have joined in the last few years thinking it's an election-winning party. Though it might self-ID as an election winning party and then we'd all have to pretend Vince Cable is PM.

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 18:27

RedToothBrush I'm gonna guess you are probably Natalie herself. If you are, get over yourself and stop crying because you were exposed as the transphobe you are.

Red is a long standing poster on MN.

You are making a twit of yourself.

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LorettasBox · 19/10/2018 18:28

Sorospaysme, you've been asked not to @ me. Please desist.

So you're a political activist who doesn't want people to vote for the candidates you support. You've got totalitarianism down very well, but that democracy thing seems to be escaping you.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:29

acivilcontract The leadership (who are elected), our MPs (who are selected by members, those elected to internal committees (by the membership), the leadership and membership of Young Liberals, LGBT+ LibDems, LibDem Women and a range of other membership lead organisations.... and most importantly LibDem Federal Conference which i the sovereign body of the membership all explicitly and overwhelmingly back trans rights. There may be a small number of transphobes and trans exclusionary feminists in the party but they are a very small minority.

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 18:30

Sal, Vince and the rest of the party stands with trans rights and against the ignorant values of Natalie and other transphobes who deny the reality that Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men and Non-Binary people are legitimate and real.

Do carry on, there are many people reading your comments.

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JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 18:30

I'm gonna guess you are probably Natalie herself.

Ah, the classic "I have no argument and no imagination so I'm just going to copy what a woman said first" sexist tactic so beloved of TRAs.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:31

FatherBuzzCagney I've been a member much longer than a few years lmfao

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:31

R0wantrees Its entirely possible that she is both Natalie and a long time poster, it would very onbrand for Natalie

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 18:32

I've been a member much longer than a few years lmfao

We are well aware how long TRAs have been using the LibDems.

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RedToothBrush · 19/10/2018 18:32

God forbid Natalie might have someone to stick up for her and say the times story isn't bollocks.

SorosPaysMe · 19/10/2018 18:33

LorettasBox I don't want transphobes to vote for our candidates, I am more than happy to get the vast majority of the pro-Trans rights pro self-ID public to vote for us

LorettasBox · 19/10/2018 18:35

You are hilarious. According to all definitions of transphobia peddled around, reality is transphobic. Good luck with that. Grin

R0wantrees · 19/10/2018 18:35

God forbid Natalie might have someone to stick up for her and say the times story isn't bollocks.

I think many women in the LibDems are well aware of what has been happening in broadterms and so unsurprised by the details of this specific case.

Hopefull more members of LibDems who understand what being liberal and democratic mean will stand up.

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JoanSummers · 19/10/2018 18:35

I am more than happy to get the vast majority of the pro-Trans rights pro self-ID public to vote for us

:D
Good luck with that!

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