DD 13 asked me if I was a T**F

[NotZenEnough]

She was talking to the cool, woke babysitter this afternoon and said, 'my mum doesn't think someone can be born in the wrong body'. Can't get to the bottom of it because DD thinks I am THE most annoying person on the planet and won't tell me everything but I think babysitter told her I must be a T**F. Babysitter just finished A'levels, (politics social sciences type) very bright young woman, I thought brighter than this, but she also told DD there are lots of different types of feminist. One type isn't really feminist, they just hate men!
I really like this babysitter (although I will try not to use her again), but the worst bit is that it just feels depressing that clever young women who should be thinking for themselves are swallowing the misogyny so wholeheartedly, I know there are some brilliant inspiring young people on twitter, but not enough.
Daughter seems to have really gone off me now.

"Opposing self id is opposing trans rights" now I know you're taking the piss orange
Although you believe people can change sex, so maybe not..

If I kept my breasts, vulva, vagina and womb but never wore make up, high heels and all the other stereotypical feminise traits, you'd except me deciding I'm a man?

Orange snail trans equality is sexist, trans women are not women and have the right to be treated by the law and society as the gender non conforming men that they are. They are adult human males, and denying their existence is not what I did.

There you go, orange. Fixed that for you.

Knew orangesnail would throw racism into the mix. Still bored.

I honestly do not think people who cannot define the words they use can be taken seriously. I bet said babysitter can‘t define ‚woman‘ and I would tell my daughter as much.

I wish I could tell which language is being spoken here! Woke? TRA? Some explained terf that some see as and has been linked with massive abusive insult, and self ID is a different thing to trans rights?

II get that some males id as female as this is the way they've always felt but would not think themselves gay even though they are physically male. Unless they likes women them they'd be lesbian.

Can they not id as whatever they actually feel they are? I might be a terf though god forbid my dds should know, so keep it quiet
I am very though about fully physically males using fully physically females changing/hospital wards/or women only prisons (where 4 were just raped by a 'trans woman with a penis'

Have I said that right?
I am not really up to speed but had to stay in refuge with many, and was horrendous. Hearing male voice in space for terrified women. Didn't look even slightly like women. So just call yourself a woman and come on in.

As for OP question, I'd think I would have liked an explanation as to BSitters intention when comment is so widely used as highly insulting.

I think we should point out to our children, that when people don't have arguments, they often recur to name-calling, anger and "feelings".

This is the time to work on your dd's critical thinking, whether or not she shares your views on this issue in particular.

@ornagesnail do you believe Karen White, the convicted rapist, is a woman?

It's no one else's business as to why OP's daughter has a childminder. No one on this thread needs to know, and no one who's asked has managed to even pretend they're not having a snide dig.

FWIW my kid is only 7 now, but if he was 13 I don‘t think I would want him to wait for me and DH alone at home - or not, who knows - til we come home. Maybe because I have grown up with ‚Christiane F. We children from Bahnhof Zoo‘, idk. But I find the idea of a ‚babysitter‘, someone who supervises homework, makes sure kid is home and has someone to talk, perfectly reasonable. Just sayn‘.

Yep smotheroffive noone is denying that men/women can wear any sort of clothes, or act in feminine/masculine ways.
That's up to them and they should be able to wear what they like in peace.

But most people would be horrified if they realised the government is proposing to amend an act so that people can "self id" as the opposite sex and that will allow them access to services and facilities designed for that sex (like refuges).
So, Fred Blogs will just need to say he's a women (because he feels like one) and he can go where he likes. He doesn't need to shave, wear a dress or change his body in any way. But everybody has to just pretend, or they are "transphobic".
The trouble is "trans" is a very broad term now.
It encompasses (usually gay) men who tend to take hormones and maybe have genital surgery. (Used to be called transsexuals ).

The thing is it now also encompasses crossdressers, men who just like getting dressed up in women's clothes on a Tuesday, and basically anyone who "doesn't feel 100% comfortable in the role of their own gender".
It doesn't just mean vulnerable people on a painful journey. It also means Karen White.

Many organisations, like prisons, are already implementing this policy, to preempt this amendment that the government were trying to get through under the radar.

That's what would called Terfs are objecting to. We want to keep the law as it stands. Many transsexuals also want to keep the medical supervision and gatekeeping that self id would remove.

These are the facts. The ploppers shrieking about phobias and bigots can't deny any of this.
They just tell us we are being very silly to worry that any man having access to any female spaces could possibly be a problem...what do you think?

Today is the last day to fill in the government consultation ( go to Fair Play for Women) to say NO to this amendment.

It's got bugger all to do with gay rights (or race). It's just to do with women and girls keeping our safeguarding, that's all.

orangesnail Could you explain to me please, how a trans woman is an actual woman? I know what I believe to be a woman but clearly that must be wrong.

OP, it's not your job to educate the babysitter but if it's otherwise convenient to employ her again then I would calmly show her the "terfisalur" website and say as calmly as possible that this is why it is unacceptable to call people terfs. Your daughter may find out but that's an easier bridge to cross than to have someone in your house encouraging her to describe you in denigrating ways, that way cracks become chasms.

My guess is that your daughter loves you to bits and is trying to differentiate. I looked up to my Dad so much that I was vile to him as a teenager in trying to create some distance between us. See if you can do something nice with her with no politics attached - I'm with the earlier poster who said she gave up discussing it with her daughter. At some point they will get it or not, but agreement on this topic isn't vital to your relationship.

OrangeSnail, comparing homophobia and opposition to sex self ID is a false equivalency; gay men have never asked for access to women’s spaces, they’ve never asked to compete in women’s sport, they’ve never demanded to be placed in a women’s jail. It’s an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

WooOoOoo thank you for all that. I thought I was a terf before although I'd not heard the expression.

I am horrified at the thought of that invasion of female spaces, the tide was only just turning towards more strength for other female only spaces.

I recall being in gay clubs years ago as the music scene and vibr was just about having a great time to great music and 'trannies' using the ladies loos, and now I think wtf?! These are men that just like dressing up as women and how great [for them and risky for women]that they are gaining access to this female only space without question. Quite scarrey really afteer hearing this about the female inmates sa

The idea that a gender non-conforming person is actually the opposite sex is homophobic and sexist. It's just an extension of things like run like a girl, throw like a girl, cry like a girl.

If you're not an acceptable type of male, you must be female. How is this labelled as progressive?

I guess trans men have no issue going into a male loo/locker rms, etc or is the plan they still use the ladies?

I told my 18 year old son to use his mother’s terfiness in his defence against being forced into using nonsensical pronouns at uni.

‘Sorry, I can’t! My mother is a terf and she will stop paying for my education if I act against our family values’

😂

I think that, on the whole, transmen might well use the men's facilities if they look convincingly masculine (although there have never been any transmen sent to men's prisons.)
The thing is, women, even male identified women, are not a threat to men, whereas we all know men can be a threat to women.
I would have no problem with a transman in my space because, actually, they are women. That's why I'm not a "Terf"- I don't exclude trans people.(Plus I'm not sure I'm a radical feminist. Or a "feminist"...Just a bog standard feminist!)

Agreed WooOoOoo about radical fem.

My perspective on the male loos was whether a transman was going to feel OK leaving safety of female loo to go into male. I don't have issue, per se, with the transmen in female unless we don't know anymore whether they are actually men or women.

What a difficult situation for women to navigate.

What do we know about countries that have all unisex facilities, as they seem to be getter more like that in UK anyway. Many public loos I've visited on UK travels recently don't have wall between. Shared entrance and visibility.

I'm sure my 17yo dd thinks I'm a TERF. Sadly she thinks she knows everything and says in this day and age there's no need for feminism. I'm slightly envious of her naivety. She will learn and start to think more in depth about things rather than just blindly accepting stuff.

I appreciate she's trying to be kind and tolerant and definitely encourage that. However she doesn't yet appreciate that by being so tolerant you're actually disregarding others. And that it's possible to be kind without accepting being trampled all over.

Wouldn't it be better all round if everyone used a different word for describing their anti transwomen accessing all areas ATAA

We are using their terminology! Adopting it and I thought I was one, but I'm not but I am ATAA.

This kindness that you speak of, nico yes, know what you mean for my own, and agree about still maintaining boundaries and be kind. They are not mutually exclusive but I do wonder if this is an age thing or a mirror image of the patriarch. I know dds F is swiftly down on any form of resistance or independence or boundaries whatever you want to calm them

Re whether the term TERF is derogatory: Jane Clare Jones tweeted recently about a philosopher who shut down a blog claiming that it was "infested with TERFS". I think we can see from that why the term is problematic.