DD 13 asked me if I was a T**F

[NotZenEnough]

She was talking to the cool, woke babysitter this afternoon and said, 'my mum doesn't think someone can be born in the wrong body'. Can't get to the bottom of it because DD thinks I am THE most annoying person on the planet and won't tell me everything but I think babysitter told her I must be a T**F. Babysitter just finished A'levels, (politics social sciences type) very bright young woman, I thought brighter than this, but she also told DD there are lots of different types of feminist. One type isn't really feminist, they just hate men!
I really like this babysitter (although I will try not to use her again), but the worst bit is that it just feels depressing that clever young women who should be thinking for themselves are swallowing the misogyny so wholeheartedly, I know there are some brilliant inspiring young people on twitter, but not enough.
Daughter seems to have really gone off me now.

I think I would be telling my daughter what cognitive dissonance meant and how gaslighting works and how important it is for women's mental health that they can say something that is true without it being called a lie.

Nobody here is against someone who is trans being treated well. That's completely different from saying a man is a woman.

Babysitter thinks as a sixth-former, she knows it all - silliness is one of the enduring privileges of being a teen. It will pass.

'One type isn't really feminist - they just hate men' bless

I don't think being labelled a TERF is an insult at all. Labels can be annoying but I'm certainly a TERF, have been called one and it wasn't an insult.

What I don't get is how a thirteen year old has so much information about such matters. Do they learn it school nowadays?

@FFSFFSFFS and @HollowTalk yes, agree. Insane how these views could be considered radical!
@KatVonGulag I wonder whether this is the same with my dd. She is pretty grumpy and hormonal atm but I do think she gets it deep down. The alternative is magical thinking.

Maybe I will raise it if we use her again. I definitely wouldn't 'sack' her, but it is tempting to avoid using her again. Husband thinks I should have a word! I guess my primary worry is that dd would be absolutely furious if she found out I'd spoken to her, and she babysits for dds best friend a lot so possible it would find its way back.....
@UpstartCrow you are right that she is causing a division between me and my daughter, and that is completely unacceptable.

@LanaorAna2 yes. Actually, yes, bless. It is blissfully naive.

As a young person, it is absolutely not the done thing to question trans issues or politics AT ALL. The pressure to accept all and trust all and not point out any problems or concerns is huge! So there are young people (like myself!) that have these questions but stay relatively quiet.

I am not surprised that the babysitter considers blindly going along with group opinion to be somehow groundbreaking, it's something I've noticed with a lot of people my age who consider themselves pioneers of free thinking.

@Materialist if only I had the steel nerve for that. Maybe a PowerPoint presentation. I can just picture daughters face! Terminal fury!

Never even heard of a TERF.
I thought T**F was going to be a 'Taff'

@Gannicusthemannicus are there real life forums where you can talk freely about this stuff? What made you question the ideology?
I love hearing that young people are not buying this stuff. It's just so hopeful.

Forward her a link to this thread and avoid using her again

F*ck me, some peope have too much time on their hands if they can give headspace to this bollocks

Or find some objective articles about and email her the link

...and OT but why does a 13 yo need baby sitting?

I would just pretend you don't know and ask the babysitter about what your DD said, ask her to explain what it means and then the conversation can go from there.
I know little about this spectrum I should probably make an effort to find out more about it.
It may be that she meant it differently, but I would be educating my DD about identity - it sounds like she is interested in it

@tiredgirly I don't like the word because it's reductive and as Fermatstheorum said earlier it is usually part of a delightful insult like 'suck my lady dick terf' or 'fuck off and die terf', but I don't personally find it insulting, i quite like censoring the letters as it's a reminder that it is intended as an offensive word. I would never censor a real swear word though,

@tiredgirly ignore my last post to you. I wrote it before you were rude

@NotZenEnough it was actually mumsnet! I didn't question anything about what I was hearing from my peers and then I saw a few discussions on here which raised great questions about it which made me start thinking. Meanwhile I was reading quite a bit of feminist theory (english degree!) especially about gender and sex and the meaning of woman and female etc. I have never told anyone about my questions though as my age group see it on level with admitting to murder so it would kill my social life, to be quite honest.

I understand it's a word often used as an insult, but you do hold the same believe as 'terfs' I'm assuming? Maybe the babysitter was just trying to explain how your views differ. Maybe not her place to do so, however, although if you're hiding your beliefs from your daughter there must surely be a reason.

Bit off topic but it’s only just clicked that a vast proportion of people who are not allied with transpeople are actually not feminists at all. Where’s their acronym? Just goes to show.

I find it difficult to believe these issues come up in every day conversation.

@Gannicusthemannicus
It's sad that you can't talk about this in real life. Brilliant you're critical thinking enough to have found your own path though. I worry that I would have been a handmaiden at your age.
Far more of my real life friends are open to this than yours will be, but friends of mine with older kids, 14 or 15 plus are more likely to be on side with trans ideology as their kids 'educate' them and they know more trans kids themselves. I've had a few glaze over and raise teenage objections. My social life is no doubt a travesty compared to yours though, so I have far less to lose.

'Terf' is used to silence people. This is how:

1. First, load it up with defamatory associations ('terfs are racist', 'terfs hate men', 'terfs want to kill transwomen' etc). Consistently link 'terfs' to Nazis. Consistently misrepresent their views and invent conspiracy theories about how they're intriguing with American evangelists.

2. Then create a stock image of a 'terf', including age, skin colour, even hairstyle - the 'terf bangs' that TRAs genuinely seem to believe are a thing (even though they made them up).

3. Make it acceptable and normal to throw the worst kind of insults at 'terfs', including hoping they get burnt to death, raped etc. Develop a culture glorifying violence against 'terfs'.

4. Use the fact that 'terfs' are now thoroughly dehumanised as an excuse to silence them, even if this means by violence. After all, why would anyone give such loathsome sub-humans a voice?

I think part of the issue is that teenagers probably don't have the same type of individuals in mind when they think of transsexuals. They are thinking of YouTubers they watch and young woke individuals (not sweaty dudes with beards).

@NotTerfNorCis yes, completely agree.
So bloody offensive, and clever to make up a word then load it with meaning.

Just googled terf bangs, and I have terf bangs.