Passing privilege

[DamnCommandments]

Just filled in the GRA consultation and it got me thinking... Trans people face uncertainty every time they need to use single-sex faculties like toilets and changing rooms, right? 'What if I'm challenged? What do I say?' But no one is going to carry their birth certificate around with them. And even if they do, and they have had it changed to match their acquired gender, once they've been challenged, it's too late - they already feel shite and have had to justify their existence.

Presumably if they have the privilege of passing, this stuff happens less. Fewer challenges, less time feeling like shite. So the people who have most to gain from the GRA are the people who already have least trouble - people who pass in their prefered gender but just want a little extra confidence. (People who don't pass will still spend their time being challenged, not having their birth certificate and feeling shite. No GRC is going to make a 6'4" transwoman with a visible Adam's apple blend in.)

And predatory imposters who want to gain access to women's spaces. They'll gain too, of course.

Fascinating video ... and oh so true.

and so obvious

Why do so many on here take a lot of people disagreeing with them as 'trying to shut me up' or whatever? Its usual, if you have a strong opinion on something, or are waffling and NAMALTing that many will disagree, pull you up on it and maybe make some sarcastic comments. Coming onto a feminist board to NAMALT and basically tell women what their boundaries should be is never going to go very well.

A throwaway comment from the CIA Chief of Disguise, Joanna Mendez:

Wait. The CIA has an actual Chief of Disguise?

Its so Get Smart.

Ok. Sorry for the hijack. Carry on.

Chief of Disguise is the best title ever.

Also, she's right about the fact that you can disguise a woman as a man far more easily than the other way around.

I remember a previous discussion on here about rape culture. RAINN (possibly the biggest authority on the matter with over 1000 service providers) made it very clear that their research showed the problem to be down to a small, deviant number of individuals and said it didn't find it helpful to blame it on a 'culture'. In fact, they said it actually took culpability away from the specific minority that were responsible.

Rape culture isn’t just about the numbers of men who commit rape; it’s about all the other men who commit other kinds of sexual assault or who are complicit by not calling out other men for their behaviour or attitude.

I’ve not been unlucky enough to experience rape, but I can count a long, long list of other kinds of assault, unwanted attention and male aggression. I was 7, the first time I was confronted by a sexual predator.

In one of my first jobs I was warned, by my manager, to be cautious about a male colleague. If he cornered you, he’d press into you and rub himself against you. This was a 9-5 job in a public space, but it was apparently my job to protect myself, not my colleague’s job to behave respectfully or my manager’s job to control (sack him).

If I complained, well, I’d been warned and there was nothing else to do. So there’s rape culture - for every man willing to commit sexual assault, there are other men standing by, if not cheering them on, then turning a blind eye.

For every man charged with rape, there were men who knew and didn’t speak up, cops who didn’t believe victims and judges and juries who let them off.

It might be comfortable for you to believe sexual assault is down to a small number of perverts, but every woman here knows different.

There was an American study done that showed as many as a third of students would commit rape if they thought they would get away with it.

That ties in with my extensive experience of sexual assault. NAMALT but a significant minority are.

EMALTFITBAC, prawn
(enough men are like that for it to be a concern)

I was talking to DS1 about male violence last night. He said he didn't see what he could do about it.

I suggested speaking up if he ever hears other men saying anything to normalize violence, whether in conversation or jokes.

But he felt this was irrelevant, as he'd never heard anyone endorse male violence. Said the kind of man who thinks VAWG is OK either has no friends or hangs out with similar low lifes. No one he knows thinks it's acceptable.

I have to say that all the men I know well have a particular loathing of abusive men. Anyone who hit a woman would be ostracized. I assume that's why so many violent partners put on a big act for anyone outside the home.

But if violent men take care to hide their views and crimes from other men, what can men do about male violence?

Prawnofthepatriarchy, not doubting for a minute that your son is a good egg. But I wonder if men don’t hear the violence in other men the same way a woman might.

I know a lot of good men, who, watching sport on TV together, or having a few beers, will make jokes or say stuff that is misogynistic.

Or when confronted with the statistics for male on female violence, will deflect it, NAMALT. OR, as a friend’s husband will do, say, “well, what about men? They suffer domestic violence too.”

Most men swim in a sea of distrust and dislike for women - like fish (but not those fucking clown fish), they don’t notice the water because it’s always all around them. Even men who like and respect women are often clueless to the implied violence in a lot of male speech.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman, there's a coincidence! I actually used that exact fish in water analogy in the chat last night.

I told him that I suspect he doesn't hear men justifying violence because of the kind of friends he has. He doesn't have a large friendship group but they're lovely. I can be quite confident about them because I've known them all for well over 10 years.

I'd be surprised if any of them thought VAWG was acceptable. But when I said so he said that even when he'd been at events with loads of strangers he'd never heard anything excusing violence.

You're right that men may be clueless on the topic but I don't think raising the subject again straight away would be helpful.

I'm hoping that just habong raised the issue will mean he'll pay more attention to what is said and how - be more alert.

But he felt this was irrelevant, as he'd never heard anyone endorse male violence. Said the kind of man who thinks VAWG is OK either has no friends or hangs out with similar low lifes. No one he knows thinks it's acceptable.

I have to say that all the men I know well have a particular loathing of abusive men. Anyone who hit a woman would be ostracized. I assume that's why so many violent partners put on a big act for anyone outside the home.

But if violent men take care to hide their views and crimes from other men, what can men do about male violence?

This too is my experience. I'd imagine that abusive men most often know that what they're doing is wrong and are not dissimilar to the type of bully who only picks on his victims when the teacher is absent.

Most men swim in a sea of distrust and dislike for women - like fish (but not those fucking clown fish), they don’t notice the water because it’s always all around them. Even men who like and respect women are often clueless to the implied violence in a lot of male speech.

I'm sorry but their just sexist bullshit. Most men don't swim in a sea of distrust for women. Most men are married/have a partner and that person is the most important person in the world to them. I'm genuinely sorry if your personal experiences have led you to conclude the above.

And FWIW I hear a lot of implied violence in statements like "I'll have his balls on a platter" - you don't really hear the reverse of this from men. The only thread I've ever seen boasting gleefully about domestic violence was the one on here where posters were sharing their stories about what they'd done to their male partners. It was pretty eye opening and thankfully not representative of most women.

but this is that should've read