Passing privilege

[DamnCommandments]

Just filled in the GRA consultation and it got me thinking... Trans people face uncertainty every time they need to use single-sex faculties like toilets and changing rooms, right? 'What if I'm challenged? What do I say?' But no one is going to carry their birth certificate around with them. And even if they do, and they have had it changed to match their acquired gender, once they've been challenged, it's too late - they already feel shite and have had to justify their existence.

Presumably if they have the privilege of passing, this stuff happens less. Fewer challenges, less time feeling like shite. So the people who have most to gain from the GRA are the people who already have least trouble - people who pass in their prefered gender but just want a little extra confidence. (People who don't pass will still spend their time being challenged, not having their birth certificate and feeling shite. No GRC is going to make a 6'4" transwoman with a visible Adam's apple blend in.)

And predatory imposters who want to gain access to women's spaces. They'll gain too, of course.

scittc Different races do not commit crimes at different rates once you control for factors such as poverty. Race leads to discrimination ( Including by the police) leads to poverty leads to crime. That’s why segregation based on race is wrong.its increasing discrimination which will not improve society.

The Stonewall umbrella of trans people covers about 500,000 people in the UK at the moment. It includes cross dressers/ men with AGP. Most of whom have no medical treatment, either surgical or hormonal.
We’re already seeing trans women in women’s prisons, women’s sports, women’s awards, taking women’s officer positions. It is already causing issues. You’re not noticing it because it has zero impact on you.

Scott "I'll get none of you would ever actually see a trans person in your changing room in real life."

What's your bet on any of us seeing a "self-id'ing" predatory man or fetishist in a women's space?

Different races do not commit crimes at different rates once you control for factors such as poverty.

But I'd wager most people don't care about the underlying factors in the heat of the moment, just whether the stranger in front of them is statistically more or less likely to harm them than the next.

Also, there are potentially many underlying factors to the trans debate - I've seen spectrum disorders being discussed as a frequent one and nobody on here seems to think this should give them a pass to women's spaces.

Anyway, getting a bit convoluted now. My original question was why some protected characteristics can be discounted in the face of greater tendency towards violence whilst others seemingly can't.

The biggest effect of the GRA in this respect is that woman won’t challenge. They’re counting on it.

It’s to shut us up as much as anything else.

Absolute Handlebar, and we’ll change our behaviour to avoid putting ourselves in these situations.

Yup. They won’t care if we stop using the changing facilities. That’s a win.

Male violence is the one thing that women are unanimously raised to be afraid of.

It comes from male socialisation coupled with physical strength and attributes. No man or boy escapes this. It is ubiquitous and systemic.

Women were previously, generally, considerate of transsexuals as one aspect of the threat was removed and there were evidently concerted efforts from those people to shake off their sex.

Under the new GRA, men who maintain their genitals, their strength, their Male-pattern entitlement and violence can enter spaces where women are vulnerable. Indeed, those with a sexually violent or predatory agenda will (and have and are) exploit this to their own end. To level the assumption that no one would do that under-estimates these men. They are entitled. They are loud. They are aggressive in getting what they want. And it is happening now.

But what about the non-violent majority? Are they to be condemned for the actions of a few? All the discussion seems to be around the unhinged few (although of course I appreciate that they're the ones causing the problems).

What about them? They don’t suffer in this scenario. They might feel a bit put out. They might not quite have the world the way they want it - welcome to the female experience!

Should a number of women be sexually assaulted at the expense of transwomen going to the toilet they want to go to?

Women were given discrete spaces for their safety. To protect them from men. It’s positive segregation.

Women often act with greater authenticity away from men. We don’t take measures to stay safe: to be aware; to take up less space. I appreciate that this is difficult to understand when the whole world of your women’s toilet.

ScottCheggJnr the polls that have asked for public views, from the serious YouGov one Pink News commissioned to the unscientific ones done by The Times and the one currently running in a Leeds local paper show that 80-90% of the public hold what you describe as "terf" views. N.B. that term is unacceptable on Mumsnet, so be careful how you use it. You don't want to get banned.

The trans rights lobby has played a blinder, using entryism to gain access to the great and the good. They have established themselves as a sort of super gay. But when exposed to sunlight and reason the whole edifice disintegrates.

When out leafletting over recent weeks I've only had two people disagree, compared to dozens and dozens who agreed and were often very concerned. The main reaction to hearing about Self ID is disbelief that the government is contemplating such an obviously risky move. People are prepared to be kind to legitimate post op transsexuals but that doesn't mean they actually think TWAW, even less that they think it's reasonable to allow males access to female only spaces just on their own say so.

As one of my DC keeps saying, this is not going to end well. If visibly male people start exposing themselves in front of women and girls I predict there will be public order offences.

What about them? They don’t suffer in this scenario. They might feel a bit put out.

I'd wager that the transwoman in female attire who has to get undressed alongside the men's football team would disagree.

I’d wager that women who have played football for the last few decades would feel his pain.

And why are we accountable, in the example, for how men make transwomen feel? Why is the onus always on women?

Scott But what about the non-violent majority? Are they to be condemned for the actions of a few? All the discussion seems to be around the unhinged few (although of course I appreciate that they're the ones causing the problems).

The majority of men are not violent. Nevertheless, I don't want men in women's changing rooms. I don't share a gender identity with transwomen. They don't share a gender identity with men. Why am I the one who has to compromise and undress in front of them?

The majority of woman (just) haven’t been sexually assaulted, but I’ll still use my privilege to protect theirs and to defend their right to safe spaces.

It’s not about odds. It’s about our hard-won rights being dismantled.

I guess we'll never agree. It's my right to walk past somebody in need of help but I'd still probably stop.

Ah, the appeal to femininity. You make decisions for you, ScottChegg, you don't get to dictate women's boundaries to us.

It's my right to walk past somebody in need of help but I'd still probably stop.
But you just said you want us to do the helping. Sorry, not my problem.

The ‘Not all men’ argument doesn’t work. So much appalling Male behaviour has been normalised, and excused as ‘boys will be boys’.

It’s time men started to make the change for themselves. Rather than bleating ‘not all men’ and defending their sex that way they should be defending the victims, calling out their own sex and changing the ride.

But this isn’t going to happen because women take responsibility for their own safety so we change OUR behaviour, they don’t change theirs.

Changing the tide, not ride

Would you really help if you thought the likely result would be your death? Serious injury? Or do you donate all your salary every month to shelter? Because of you don’t you can’t ask women to give up their safety and ability to participate in society on the basis of helping someone’s else

What a manipulative, passive aggressive statement, ScottCheggJnr.

Men who identify as women are not women's problem to solve. I'm all out of compassion for people who show nothing but contempt for us.