Butterfly - anyone watching

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Opening sequence got pretty much all the stereotypes in...

I can't bring myself to watch it.
I appreciate the commentary!

I have not watched this but the comments on ITV’s Facebook page are pretty much “support your kid no matter what”, I think anyone that tries to voice genuine concerns there would be sadly shot down.

Perhaps it’s too much to hope that Grandad will get on to social media or contact a group like Transgender Trend. Now that really would inject a bit of drama and tension into the series

Hold on a sec. I've not watched because, you know, stressful, but am I reading that the parents have split up, and the boy is blaming himself, and the thrust of the drama is that he's right?

And the AWAs on Twitter are in ecstacies over this portrayal?

Bloody hell these people are quite simply detached from all decency.

That's exactly what I was thinking Floral, is it defensible in any way a young child is collateral in adults' deficiencies?

current thread with background etc:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3393935-Serious-official-criticism-of-Butterfly

Radio 5 are going to be discussing it tomorrow. They are asking for feedback. Most of the comments I read underneath that are there currently are very positive.

twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1051578263376683008?s=21

People are raving over it on Twitter. I just think people are really really stupid unfortunately and a lot of people do believe the born in the wrong body nonsense.

I don't for one minute doubt the intense feelings of distress and/or 'dysphoria' that some people/children feel. However, I do think that the whole transgender agenda is unhealthy. Body/mind integration has always been the goal of most psychotherapies.

I think many of us feel a disjunct between our physical body type and our personality; however the necessary process of adjustment and reconciliation to the limits of bodily reality is a healthy one.

Many get addicted to cosmetic surgery in a bid to stave off feelings of discomfort or insecurity ( see Katie Price) - but it is a dead end. The roots of discomfort are psychological and emotional. Altering your body in response to psychological discomfort may produce a short term fix - but not a longer term one.

My boss said to me today "Floral, never assume people are sensible. You will avoid so much disappointment."

I think the program is getting it about right. Al families have this rift when dealing with issues around our children and yes it puts a real strain on all our marriages. The idea that the father is loosing a son very real and making it harder for him to accept or allow Maxine to explore her gender in any way. The mother reaching out for reassurance that it isn't something she has done - a very real experience of any mother. And the Sister really understanding and acting as a bridge. And then Maxine trying everything to avoid pushing her Dad away but in the end the pressure inside to express herself too strong. Looking forward to the next few week to see where this goes. Hopefully people here will start to understand the pressures on any family dealing with this is any issue that splits them.

I don't think anyone doubts the emotional distress of anyone involved; just that there is absolute disagreement about the 'solution'. The solution must be reconciliation and acceptance of one's biological reality, even if one chooses to 'play' or 'perform' with gendered stereotypes and roles. Sex and gender are two separate things.

I thought it was v realistic.

Well, that was subtle as a brick. Appalling dialogue devoted to shoehorning in talking points so that even decent actors couldn't do anything with it.

I like your boss Floral

My take on it:
First part of #Butterfly:
Only boys like football
Only boys can be astronauts
Product placement for #Mermaids
Dysfunctional family
Girls wear pink tops and skirt and like posing in front of mirrors
Girls do not wear trousers
Only girls allowed to wear studs at school
Max wants family reunited
Max doesn't allow mum to kiss him on first day of secondary school but older daughter does
Max wets pants because "scared" of using toilet
Max using emotional blackmail to access girls toilets, toilet scene shows toilets to be effectively "gender neutral" i.e. toilet block with boys and girls loos opposite each other with open urinal in front of boys in full sight of girls toilets??

Max upset that mum is going out on date with another man, so slashes wrists to prevent it happening - the epitome of emotional blackmail and manipulation to try to reunite mum and dad

One has to question why daughter asking if mum will have sex with new guy on first date - totally dysfunctional family. Assume suicide attempt associated with dysfunctional family not "trans" status

Max saying that wrist slashing "calmed him down" - using suicide attempt to draw attention to family dysfunction as Max obviously didn't want mum to date another man. This speak volumes about family disunity not "trans ID"

Mum and dad try to get back together, Max spying to ensure they are sharing the same bedroom. Max seem watching "I am Jazz" on youtube - social contagion angle?

Question - why is Max hanging around mum and dads bedroom ensuring they are having sexual relations - this is sick

Basically telling kids that if you want your mum and dad to get back together you have to slash your wrists - this cannot go unchallenged - it is manipulative in the extreme

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 14-Oct-18 21:10:57

"Now the wee boy is making "bitchy" comments about dads GFs tanlines - obviously a girl thing"

Yep They were doing the being a girl = being bitchy thing Really pisses me off

Utterly failing to mention her role in Mermaids, the Daily Mail is running an interview with Susie Green whose family's story 'inspired' the Butterfly series.

In the Showbiz section.

Without comments.

This is what TRAs say it's all about? Really? Make up and clothes, hair and nail polish, pink and frilly.

That's it?

I thought there was so much more to it. Gobsmacked

That's all the stuff we see. In reality it is a mystical thing in the realm of the inner soul that cannot be adequately described in words.

So they don't bother and just make crude assumptions based on prejudice and stereotype, cos it's so much easier than addressing their preconceptions and any underlying mental health and psychological issues with their children.

So if we took all the dresses and skirts and pink and frilly clothes and makeup out of the world, and everyone had to be bald, how would transgenderism manifest itself?

What else is there? I don't understand this programme. It's almost like it's making fun of transgirls. Very uncomfortable to watch.

As said, I thought it was good and I have no issues with the stereotypes as I would assume from looking at adult trans folks that stereotypical gender things are something these kids possibly do focus on, and that a parent trying to push them away from it may try to focus on the opposite gender stereotypes.

I strongly suspect it would be very unrealistic for a little boy wishing to be a girl to be saying yes but I like boy stereotypes,

Stereotypes are not always a negative, they are stereotypes for a reason in many instances. And that's because it is normally typical of a given group.

It's also not a documentary, it's not trying to say all boys and all girls like x y and Z. It's about that ficitional family.

Philip Larkin, 'This Be The Verse'

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

They may not mean to, but they do.

They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,

Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

Lisa Muggeridge
'#Butterfly, Mermaids, and how easy it is to hide grooming in plain sight.'

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=TwnUxlzUCNE