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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

FPFW full page ad in the Metro!

548 replies

LemonJello · 10/10/2018 12:31

mobile.twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1049949350347071489

👏👏👏

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17
R0wantrees · 11/10/2018 23:36

this is the full extent of actions following the Rector's retweet:
(extract)
"The Sabbatical Team at the Students’ Association has issued a joint statement as follows: “The organisations responsible for the tweet and its content are explicitly transphobic groups, largely responsible for the recent wave of transphobic flyers, stickers and materials distributed in the university and Students’ Association’s buildings.

“After raising the issue of these materials and organisations with the Rector in a recent meeting, and hearing her recent speech purporting to support LGBT+ students at the university, we are shocked that the Rector continues to support these organisations on Twitter.

“The university needs to be a place where transgender students feel supported and respected, and as a representative for staff and students, the Rector’s actions are unacceptable. The Sabbatical Officers have contacted the MPs representing the university area, Ian Murray and Tommy Sheppard, to urge they not attend the event referred to in the tweet, and to instead support the advancement of trans rights in the Gender Recognition Act (England and Wales) consultation.”

A spokesperson for the University of Edinburgh said: “The Rector posted these links/made these comments in a personal capacity. The university’s position is one of zero tolerance towards harassment, bullying, discrimination and victimisation of any kind – this includes zero tolerance towards transphobia.”

Edinburgh’s PrideSoc has responded to Henderson on Twitter: “Concerning your recent retweet of FairPlayForWomen, are you aware of the transphobic nature of this event? The GRA has not and will not affect women’s rights. Anyone claiming otherwise is pushing an anti-trans agenda under the guise of feminism.”

The university’s network for LGBT+ staff, Staff Pride Network, also tweeted: “We hope that this was retweeted in error as we do not consider these orgs friends of LGBT+ folks. But we are also very happy to chat with you offline rector about our perspective on GRA reform.”"

Shock
Redshoeblueshoe · 11/10/2018 23:53

Okay
I know we have some decent MNers in Edinburgh
I think that they can deal with this

R0wantrees · 12/10/2018 00:22

I think increasingly that the Minister for Universities Sam Gyimah MP (also minister for science) needs to step up.

Still no conclusion to Jess Bradley NUS Officer suspended due to allegations of flashing etc.

Issues raised by Prof Kathleen Stock in her recent speech at the House of Lords:
(extract)
So what is the solution? I suggest we need more academics acting as experts and advisors in this area.

However, we also need to bear in mind three caveats.

First: if those academics are from Gender Studies Departments, we should remember that many academics in such Departments deny that biological sex naturally exists; they think sex is socially constructed. Anyone who sincerely believes this is unlikely to properly consider the interests of the female sex class, in advising on public policy. So, as well as Gender Studies people, we need people from other relevant subject areas: for instance, statisticians, psychologists, psychiatrists, legal theorists, philosophers, sociologists, historians, and so on.

The next caveat is that: the current climate makes it hostile for academics to speak out in these areas, unless their views firmly fall into line with Stonewall’s and Gendered Intelligence’s, etc. Indeed, Stonewall and Gendered Intelligence are frequently brought in to do ‘Equalities’ training in our Universities. My own University has worked hard to become what is known as a ‘Stonewall Diversity Champion’. So University policy on what may permissibly be said and what may not be said, is often written with the advice of lobbying organisations. Because of this interaction between policy in Universities and trans lobbying organisations, academics are often fearful of being disciplined by their employers for speaking critically about trans activism. Vice-chancellors and university managers need to break links with these organisations, and robustly and vocally defend academics’ right to challenge some of the narratives which these organisations disseminate.

The final caveat is this: the refereeing system for AHRC and ESRC research grant applications, journal submissions, and so on, means that those applications and submissions which are critical of accepted narratives are vulnerable to rejection, if they come across the wrong sort of referee. And they will very often come across the wrong sort of referee, given the power dynamics in Universities currently. (Indeed, any academic discussion at all of females, as such, is increasingly vulnerable to rejection. For instance, I was recently told of an article written on vaginisimus, a female medical complaint, which was rejected by a journal partly on the grounds that the author of the article assumed that vaginisimus was something only women could get. I’m not joking.) (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3391330-Prof-Kathleen-Stock-WPUK-speech-at-House-of-Lords-Important-disection-of-the-key-issues-for-MPs-policy-makers-etc-with-ref-to-The-Trans-Equality-Report

James Caspian's research on detransitioning being prevented (despite the government's announcement of an enquiry into young people and concerns raised by Victoria Atkins Minister for Women)

Prof Michael Biggs statement about the importance of free speech with specific reference to the threat he perceives transideology poses to this.

The points raised by Rose of Dawn on the co-opting of NUS by the extremist positions of Jess Bradley (& others) etc

Harrassment of staff and students for 'wrong think'

Natacha Kennedy etc etc

AngryAttackKittens · 12/10/2018 01:41

I know it was back a bit now, but this?

I've just seen that in the aftermath of Posie's billboard that TRAs set up a fundraiser to counter it, raised a whole £120 from 7 people in 16 days. No wonder they are so bemused at how FPFW could afford this ad, the idea of actually caring enough about an issue to put your money where your mouth is instead of just spouting bile online is alien to them.

This is hilarious. Every one of these people has a Patreon, or a blurb asking you to just send them money directly via Paypal, but the idea of women donating money to support each other, in the abstract without some sort of named "and with that money I will buy myself implants" goal? Fundraising that not purely selfish? Working together towards a common goal and not expecting any individual credit for it? What is this madness?

It's what happens when the collective "you" is functional adults who feel solidarity towards each other rather than screeching narcissists.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 12/10/2018 02:11

I still can't believe people take 'sack them for a tweet' seriously.
It's Twitter people, there's a whole wide world out there, you don't even need a screen to interact with it! Shock

BiologyMatters · 12/10/2018 06:41

Fuck me there's a content warning on that article. How will these snowflakes cope in real life?

KatVonGulag · 12/10/2018 07:04

Oh bless their hearts.
They are going to need trigger warnings every morning when they get the Tube. So many Metros. So much phobia!

Thank you for posting these twitter threads. Proper funny.

I particularly enjoyed "Polly" who believes our money would have been better spent supporting trams in Northern Ireland.
I'm torn here. I do want to support women's rights but I also love heritage vehicles!

FPFW full page ad in the Metro!
writingbymoonlight · 12/10/2018 07:27

Today’s London metro headline says it like it is re. Karen White. It seems the Metro is not capitulating...

SophoclesTheFox · 12/10/2018 07:38

It always somehow shocks me anew when the misogyny leaks out - I should be over it by now, but somehow am not!

This caper about being disbelieving when women organise and fundraise to get shit done, it's just so blatantly sexist. Women don't have skills. Women don't have money. Women can't organise stuff.

Haven't we got better things to be doing, like getting our man's tea on the table and thinking about how to get whites sparkling white?

FekkoTheLawyer · 12/10/2018 07:46

Trams? Won't the river buses get all upset?

BiologyMatters · 12/10/2018 07:54

The metro today leading with a photo of Karen white in his natural state.

metro.co.uk/2018/10/12/prison-service-apologises-for-sending-transgender-rapist-to-womens-prison-8030300/

scepticalwoman · 12/10/2018 07:55

Thank you all for such an entertaining read this morning. These self absorbed wannabes just don't get women do they? Not a clue.

FlippinFumin · 12/10/2018 07:57

Do you know what, if the trans community could take a leaf out of women's books, they could have their own refuges and centres and movement, instead of trying to take over those which women have funded and built.

Women's refuges were built mostly during the 60 and 70s when there was no funding, no European money, no Lottery funding, but women did it, because women care about one another. Austerity is nothing compared to those days, women could not even get a bank loan or credit card, their husbands could legally rape them, and no one had any bloody money. The trans community have access to all kinds of grants and funding these days, let them build their own damn refuges and centres. The one thing they lack? Love and respect for each other.

Charley50 · 12/10/2018 07:58

Love the Metro for their front page reporting today.

Charliethefeminist · 12/10/2018 07:59

I'm torn here. I do want to support women's rights but I also love heritage vehicles
GrinGrin

Charley50 · 12/10/2018 08:00

I wondered if BBC TV or ch 4 would discuss it last night, as it is so pertinent to what happens when self-Id is abused. Nothing. Maybe tonight.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 12/10/2018 08:00

I almost cheered when I picked up the Metro this morning. Plus they have an interview with Grayson Perry which describes transvestitism as his 'sexy, fetishy thing' & where he comments on 'the average transvestite wanting to pass as a woman'.

FPFW full page ad in the Metro!
FPFW full page ad in the Metro!
arranfan · 12/10/2018 08:01

Women don't have skills. Women don't have money. Women can't organise stuff.

ManinPink was thought provoking on this the other day:

twitter.com/GNCmaninpink/status/1047455815567904768

There are many thoughtful points in that thread that highlight that grass roots organisation fundamentally depends on women.

Some of these women that have been called "handmaidens" aren't going to budge. Many of them are hardened Labour / anarchist activists. They wont budge position and will stand by and even take part in the harassment, doxxing and violence against radical feminists & allies.

3. For example the attack on Bristol WNTT event wasn't organised by TAs it was organised by feminist women in Bristol. Same with London, Brighton, Cardiff & Leeds. Where there's large pockets of already active feminist women there will be counter-demos to radical feminist events.

5. The refusal to challenge other women over self ID and just write them off as "handmaidens" will make sure Self ID will become law in the UK. TA's like many other men are crap at organising and only have gotten as far as they did through intersectional feminist involvement.

The whole thread is worth reading - that's the wisdom of someone who's been through a number of civil rights campaigns and knows that they can't be organised without women.

Charliethefeminist · 12/10/2018 08:03

I wondered if BBC TV or ch 4 would discuss it last night, as it is so pertinent to what happens when self-Id is abused

Waste of wondering time. They are contemptible.

deepwatersolo · 12/10/2018 08:06

The Metro article is really the high art of trolling. Starting off with the pronouns ‚she‘ and his man-pic, and further down effortlessly switching to ‚he‘ and showing the womanly one, without a direct indication why ‚he‘ at this point....

Grin
deepwatersolo · 12/10/2018 08:07

I think it is fair to say that Metro does not back down.

Ereshkigal · 12/10/2018 08:09

I think we can almost consider that a tiny hint to people who try to control what newspapers print..

ChattyLion · 12/10/2018 08:13

R0wan you make such important points.

Do you think it is worth us writing to Sam Gyimah as the Minister but also to Universities UK www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/about/Pages/about-us.aspx to point out that some good vice chancellors have already spoken up about freedom of speech when their academics have been attacked for simply having opinions...

I do think UUK should coordinate ALL the vice chancellors to speak up together preemptively to support academics being able to speak, write, research, receive funding freely. The chilling effect on normal academic enquiry here is absolutely shocking.

It would be a pretty sinister agenda of any kind that wants to constantly block any kind of robust enquiry via harassment isn’t it? What are they all so scared that an academic might find? Or say? Or publish?

Why are other forms of extremism that have attempted to control free speech and freedom to study (and in some cases also threatening the person or university property) so roundly condemned by all? What’s different here?

It’s so easy to see the perversion in academic discourse that has been caused by the marketisation of the universities, but I think we have to press on and point out the extreme difficulties here and encourage those at the top to actually lead Hmm and speak up.

FekkoTheLawyer · 12/10/2018 08:13

Journalists love a good tussle. It must be some light relief from the 'real' news.

Charliethefeminist · 12/10/2018 08:13

Hopes observations are interesting but there's no arguing with a self-righteous handmaiden.