"over 70% of unprovoked street attacks were men being violent to other men."

[golondrina]

I commented on a tweet saying that men too are afraid of walking alone at night because of violence from other men. I said that it may be true that some men fear violent attack from other men, most don't. That men sometimes are afraid walking alone but that women are usually afraid of walking alone at night and that it was an important difference.

He's come back saying "over 70% of unprovoked street attacks were men being violent to other men" I want to reply with something specific, help me?

And worse, obv.

It took about 1 week for male response (generalising) to #metoo to go from

1. OMG that's awful
2. Hmm there seems a lot of these stories, they can't all be right. Are you sure you're not imaginging things / over-reacting
3. OMG you're saying men can't even look at women any more!!!!

We seem to have cantered through this effect very nicely on this thread with scott and pals

Even quite a few threads on Mumsnet I’ve read where a woman has a partner who is not treating her child/ren well at all.

You're right - it's clearly a woman's fault if her husband is mistreating her children.

yet is trying to justify this and stay with him despite the obvious impact this is having.

Yes - she'd be better off leaving him and raising the kids alone. Oh, hang on, haven't we just been told that single mothers are the ones responsible for raising boys who turn out badly?

If the Sun doesn't have page 3 any more I take it back! My colleague who read it was a few years ago > maybe 3 > I don't sit near his team any more.

Maybe they did away with the tits? Not sure. I was talking about page 3 in the workplace >> if that's no more then GOOD.

3. OMG you're saying men can't even look at women any more!!!!

I remember being in a discussion a few months ago where a whole load of blokey types were 'threatening' to withdraw their presence from the dating scene because 'it's a minefield for men in this day and age'.

They were pretty shocked when all the female posters reacted by saying "So men who don't respect women won't be clogging up our dating sites anymore? Fantastic news! Now we won't have to do the hard work of filtering them out!"

Christ on a bike. Haven't we got to the end of the box of Kleenex yet?

Went and got a new box, clearly.

Went and got a new box, clearly.

I hear they're on a two for the price of one deal at Aldi.

@IcedPurple Apologies if my post wasn’t clear, I meant the woman’s new partner/s not the child’s father

If the Sun doesn't have page 3 any more I take it back!
The newsagent must love you

Many adolescent males seem to reach that rebellious stage of 'challenging' their father's authority and this may be something that some women are less able to deal with, or understand less than men who are more used to a competitive/aggressive hierarchy. Thank you.
Now we seem to have taken this as read, but I have some more questions. Are all men equally adept at wrangling adolescent males? Do all adolescent males openly challenge their father? (Both questions in your opinion)
Likewise are all women unable to deal with this, is there perhaps something that some women can teach the others? An army officer or teacher must have this skill, surely?
Finally if we go on the premise that it's women's fault they end up as single mums (for the purposes of this argument) then what measures can be put in place to prevent this that don't lead to us becoming Afghanistan? We can't force couples to stay together, or ban children born outside wedlock, or give sole parental responsibility to the father. So what do we do to prevent these women becoming single mums, if it is so damaging to the male children?

there seems to be a certain type that would rather moan about men on the internet whilst putting the responsibility on the everyday western bloke to resolve problems largely out of his reach and for which he is largely not responsible for.
Oh, and the above reads like "it's not my fault so don't blame me".
It's not your fault. It's not my fault either. Some kid in a gang raped a girl and stabs a boy dead, honestly it's nothing to do with me. Some man breaks a bottle on another man's head, that's not my fault. A husband beats his wife every night, not my fault either.
I'm still interested in trying to prevent all the above from happening and I'm open to discussing it. Maybe there's some small part of my behaviour in public that encourages it, or something I overlook that I should complain about, like a song with gratuitous lyrics I heard the gang boy playing on the bus, maybe when I heard the gang girl swearing loudly I should have listened to her. Who knows? Maybe the conclusion is there's nothing for me to do personally but I could influence others, maybe by voting for more police, or campaigning for more CCTV.
What I don't do is get the hump and take it personally. Because it isn't my fault. I'd just like to try to make it better.

Fact is, statistics show that the most violent men are raised solely by women.

What are you women doing about this?

Been a while since we had a normal MRA, and not one dressing up his 'concerns' as being concerned about trans people and such.

Amazing though, how such posters can twist anything around to be the fault of women.

And FURTERMORE if these bastard women would just love us, or pretend to, then there wouldn't be so much violence so again it's women's fault.

Yup.

Hahaha gotta love an MRA
Man fucks off, woman stays and brings up children. Male child does something violent. Is this:(
A) because he's angry at being abandoned by his father?
B) because of a complex interplay of factors like social class, the area he lives in and the fact he's male?
C) Because of some unspecified but common poor parenting on the part of the woman who has brought him up?

Yep. Definitely C. Male violence is womens fault.

Fucking quite..

And yet for some odd reason you remain unwilling to provide links to examples of you urging men to do just that. Funny that.

Oh yes, they always always spend ages talking to men about the same thing. But..oops, can never provide proof of that. Almost like they come to FWR specifically to spout their bollocks, whilst not actually caring about male victims, or these violent male kids, or anything! Anything except blaming women for mens wrongs.

"The fullproof guide to totally pwning feminazis"

Of course there are uncouth blokes, just like there are gold digging women who want to be paid for by men. It's the nature of the world.

And now MRA bingo begins. Gold digging women is generally followed by 'false accusations of rape' and such, lets see...I may be wrong...

I'd suggest it's more like getting that random person to start thinking of ways they could reduce their personal carbon footprint by e.g. using a more efficient car, washing at 30 degrees, buying local food. For the more interested people, they could lobby the government, support charities like WWF etc.

Again, quite.

---

Ahh finally through the thread. We have not come to theres loads of false accusations yet. So I get to post before it comes, lucky me! We have had the 'loads of men'/boyfriends' thing though it seems.

All of this because people suggested that men should stop attacking one another. So much twisting everything to be the womans fault, why on earth not just post 'BITCHES ARE THE ONES CAUSING THIS FROM NOT SLEEPING WITH MEN ,BUT ALSO SLEEPING WITH TOO MANY MEN, BUT NOT SLEEPING WITH MEMEMEMEMEME AND FUCK EM|!'. Would at least be more honest.

As for the OP. Yeah, male violence is truly out of control and always has been. It is an interesting topic ,trying to come up with stuff that coiuld help (beyond just blaming women for it all, which is fucking ridiculous) but...attacks on men only ever seem to be brought up in relation to attacks on women. Like, the men who bring it up only bring it up to say 'we have it worse look!' and such. Kind of like how MRAs don't actually give a shit about men, its all about baiting feminists.

This thread, and the whole MRA speil..rather reminds me of this article really.

victimfocus.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/

The icing on the cake with that artivle really was the amount of men who contacted her husband to check that she did actually do stuff for men

AngryAttackKittens - It depends what you mean intervene.

Someone shouting in a passing car. Its gross but it's happened before any one can stop it.

Someone following a school girl, shouting sexual abuse and/or trying to touch her - Most would intervene.

If the men you know wouldn't, your interacting with the wrong men.

Tell women how to find the right men. The wrong men are very adept at hiding behind a facade of decent behavior.

There is a deep rooted sense of immaturity and insecurity in our culture, and a desire to evade any adult responsibility.

One way this manifests is blaming - a need to find who is to blame for any given problem, instead of looking for a root cause and fixing it. As soon as the guilty culprit is found it releases the state of tension, and the discussion ends.

It's like dealing with children in adult bodies.

Tell women how to find the right men. The wrong men are very adept at hiding behind a facade of decent behavior.

Well, if you think there's a foolproof way to 'find the right men', maybe you should run a course in this valuable life skill?

Or maybe we should teach men not to be violent, not put the responsibility on women to 'find' the non-violent ones?

Someone following a school girl, shouting sexual abuse and/or trying to touch her - Most would intervene.
Er no. No they wouldn't. Most would ignore it. Hence why so many men think it's ok.

Here's a lot of men who are so supremely sure harassment is ok that they were happy to be photographed
www.boredpanda.com/catcalling-selfies-project-dearcatcallers/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

Someone following a school girl, shouting sexual abuse and/or trying to touch her - Most would intervene.

I would most definitely intervene.

I would most definitely intervene.

Everyone always says they would intervene, but it's been shown time and time again that, 9 times out of 10, they don't. This isn't only true of men or in cases of sexual harassment, in fairness. Even in cases where there would be little or no danger to the person who intervenes, people make an excuse to themselves and walk on by. There have been numerous experiments and real-life situations proving this.

And even when we like to think we'd be the exception to the rule, chances are we wouldn't.

I have intervened in the past

I'm not going to make this about you, and good for you if you did intervene, but in the vast majority of situations people will NOT do a thing.

Ask any woman who's been harassed in public - which is to say virtually every woman - and she will confirm this.

Yes, I can't speak of others but that's what I so. Also I don't see much harassment of women - I think that men who shout out such things try to avoid other men hearing.

Did you look up Oxytocin (by the way) - I think it was on this thread that you were asking why some men abandon their families ?

I've intervened in this kind of situation, more than once. The problem is that it's a sure fire way of getting your teeth knocked out. The sort of arsewipe who does this kind of thing, almost by definition, falls into the violent category. Last time it happened I got gobbed at.

I can easily believe that the majority of men wouldn't say anything.

IcedPurple - I think a lot depends on if passerby realise what is going on.

In the Social experiments I've seen they have made it really obvious something bad is happening e.g Woman crying, man shouting abuse loudly, clearly unwanted physical contact, and people intervene.

Most people of colour have had some racist, passing comment mumbled at them in the street. I really wouldn't want a stranger getting involved. I keep walking and ignore it.

I assume most women have had a sexual comment said to them in the street. Do they even want a stranger chasing someone down and demanding apologies on their behalf.

Did you look up Oxytocin (by the way) - I think it was on this thread that you were asking why some men abandon their families ?

I know what Oxytocin is, thanks.

What I still don't know is why a not inconsiderable number of men will wake up one morning and decide to desert the children they chose to have, leaving them in poverty. Blaming it on 'oxytocin' sounds like another 'male violence is all down to testosterone' cop out.