"over 70% of unprovoked street attacks were men being violent to other men."

[golondrina]

I commented on a tweet saying that men too are afraid of walking alone at night because of violence from other men. I said that it may be true that some men fear violent attack from other men, most don't. That men sometimes are afraid walking alone but that women are usually afraid of walking alone at night and that it was an important difference.

He's come back saying "over 70% of unprovoked street attacks were men being violent to other men" I want to reply with something specific, help me?

Existing!

Oops

The core of the problem as I see it is that there is a mass of interlocking problems. Mental health, drugs, alcohol, poverty, social injustice, inequality, lack of education, lack of opportunity, cultural toxicity, religious toxicity, oppression, violence, fear, anger, abuse... Finding a solution requires a radical shift in society across the board.

significant increase in perceived attachment security in male adults previously classified as insecure.
Suggest that you read up on attachment theory if you think this is a reason why oxytocin means men leave their families

So now internet men are claiming that when men don't financially support their own offspring, it's due to hormones.

Right .

One thing is certain, that hormonal imbalances do affect peoples behaviour. Oxytocin is a hormone known to be linked to bonding in people.

As the internet person () Icedpurple asked why it was that some men abandon their families, then I think it is reasonable to consider whether a lack of oxytocin activity might be a factor in such cases. It seems that you and others are absolutely convinced that this cannot be the case. I am not in the least surprised. Feminists are renowned for having closed minds. Whilst you are quite keen to cherry-pick on the ways biology can assist in some of your arguments, such as in the Trans issue, there are other areas of biological studies, such endocrinology that are seemingly less palatable to you.

I love it when men think they are an expert, despite clearly not getting the theory.

Lower oxytocin does not cause men to walk out on their families. That's just bollocks.

QuentinWinters

I remember looking at attachment theory (when I used to be involved in care proceedings) - there is a long entry for it on Wikipedia as I recall. I'll look again. Thanks

I do not claim I am an expert in this subject. I'm merely putting it out there as a possibility - it's you that has the entrenched opinion.

I believe hormones can have a huge influence on behaviour.

Anecdotal though it may be, I'm on testosterone for a hormonal problem and I've noticed a huge surge in aggression (both 'appropriate' and otherwise) since starting my treatment.

There were also about six studies posted in the thread a few weeks back about this, evidencing a range of factors such as violent criminals/sex offenders having demonstrably higher levels of test and also that it makes women and many animals more violent.

I do not claim I am an expert in this subject. I'm merely putting it out there as a possibility - it's you that has the entrenched opinion.
Lol. I don't have an entrenched opinion. I'm just not grasping at straws to try to make the behaviour of some arseholes men seem ok

One thing is certain, that hormonal imbalances do affect peoples behaviour. Oxytocin is a hormone known to be linked to bonding in people.

So.... your theory is that if tests were run on dads who abandon their kids, they would be found to have an 'imbalance' in oxytocin compared to dads who don't walk out on their kids?

If so, it should he fairly easy to run such tests, no? And if, as you posit, men abandon their own kids due to a simple 'hormonal imbalance' it should be pretty easy to rectify, no?

So why hasn't anyone done this? Are you saying you're the first person to whom this groundbreaking theory has occurred?

there are other areas of biological studies, such endocrinology that are seemingly less palatable to you.

And yet you have provided no evidence whatsoever to back your claim. A hastily googled 'research paper' which you haven't even read doesn't count.

The below is interesting and took me five mins of googling...

Sari van Anders, Ph.D. is a Michigan psychologist who has done fascinating assessments of T levels in men and women, looking at their relationship status, and their reports of sexual partners inside and outside their marriages. In 2006, she found that high levels of T predict whether both men will become and remain partnered in a relationship. Higher levels of T make it less likely that people will commit to a relationship. When they do, they are more likely to have relationships that are nonmonogamous, involving either infidelity or a negotiated open relationship, such as polyamory.

Research from Africa has found that men who had polygamous marriages with multiple wives had higher levels of T than men in monogamous marriages. Van Anders' found that in her studies, men and women who reported that they were polyamorous, and involved in nonmonogamous relationships of one sort or another, all had higher levels of T. Both men and women who were polyamorous had higher levels of T than most other men and women.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/201108/putting-the-t-in-infidelity%3famp

She states that there is ample evidence thatmen in committed romantic relationships have lower levels of testosteronethan single men. As a man’s marriage becomes less stable, his levels of testosterone rise. With divorce or divorce, his testosterone levels rise even more.

According to Fisher, increased levels of testosterone can decrease levels of vasopressin and oxytocin – the very chemicals responsible for male-female attachment. When scientists surgically pumped testosterone into monogamous male sparrows, thesefaithful fathers abandoned their nests, their young, and their wives to court other females.

rapidbreakuprecovery.com/the-role-of-testosterone-in-breakup-recovery/

Men who cheat show elevated testosterone levels

www.apa.org/monitor/dec06/testosterone.aspx

People With High Levels Of Testosterone And Cortisol Are More Likely To Cheat, Says New Study

www.bustle.com/articles/101104-people-with-high-levels-of-testosterone-and-cortisol-are-more-likely-to-cheat-says-new-study

Also there's this....

Oxytocin Produces More Engaged Fathers and More Responsive Infants

Philadelphia, PA, December 10, 2012 – A large body of research has focused on the ability of oxytocin to facilitate social bonding in both marital and parenting relationships in human females. A new laboratory study, led by Dr. Ruth Feldman from Bar-Ilan University in Israel and published in the current issue of Biological Psychiatry, has found that oxytocin administration to fathers increases their parental engagement, with parallel effects observed in their infants.

Oxytocin is a neuropeptide that plays an important role in the formation of attachment bonds. Studies have shown that intranasal administration of oxytocin increases trust, empathy, and social reciprocity.

In this study, researchers examined whether oxytocin administration to the parent enhances physiological and behavioral processes that support their social engagement with their infant and improves their parenting. They also examined whether oxytocin effects on the parent’s behavior would affect related physiological and behavioral processes in the infant.

Thirty-five fathers and their five-month-old infants were observed twice, once after oxytocin administration and once after placebo administration. The fathers received the nasal sprays in a solitary room while their infant was cared for in another room. After 40 minutes, fathers and infants were reunited and engaged in face-to-face play that was micro-coded for parent and child's social behavior. Salivary oxytocin levels were measured from the fathers and infants both before and several times after the drug administration.

“We found that after oxytocin administration, fathers’ salivary oxytocin rose dramatically, more than 10 fold, but moreover, similar increases were found in the infants’ oxytocin. In the oxytocin conditions, key parenting behavior, including father touch and social reciprocity, increased but infant social behavior, including social gaze and exploratory behavior, increased as well,” explained Feldman.

In addition, respiratory sinus arrhythmia – a measure that indexes better autonomic readiness for social engagement – was higher in both parent and child.

“We should not be surprised that social bonding in male parents is affected by many of the same biological mechanisms that have been identified for females,” commented Dr. John Krystal, Editor of Biological Psychiatry. “The question arising from this study is whether there is a way to harness the ‘power’ of oxytocin to promote paternal engagement with their infants in families where this is a problem.”

Feldman concluded, “Such findings have salient implications for the potential treatment of young children at risk for social difficulties, including premature infants, siblings of children with autism, or children of depressed mothers, without the need to administer drug to a young infant.”

The article is “Oxytocin Administration to Parent Enhances Infant Physiological and Behavioral Readiness for Social Engagement” by Omri Weisman, Orna Zagoory-Sharon, and Ruth Feldman (doi: 10.1016/j.biopsych.2012.06.011). The article appears in Biological Psychiatry, Volume 72, Issue 12 (December 15, 2012), published by Elsevier.

Can I ask why people with dissenting opinions are labelled ‘MRA’s?

Good question. It’s one of their most easy to reach, off the shelf slurs - I don’t think a lot of thought had gone into it.

Ed Yong has done a fine overview of oxytocin and the over-hyped research:

www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/11/the-weak-science-of-the-wrongly-named-moral-molecule/415581/

I can imagine in the office -

Did you hear Dave from accounts has been having a affair with Sandra in the reconciliation team?

NO!

Yes - anyway he's got 3 kids you know, and he's been with his wife since they were 17. Anyway, he's left her! And him and Sandra have got a little flat out in Catford. Apaprently he's blocked his ex, and is acting like he and the kids never even existed.

Oh wow that's tough for the ex and the kids. Oxytocin?

Yep, definitly oxytocin, bloody oxytocin

PS names have been changed for protection - I knew Dave and Sandra though in a previous job.

Issue with Dave was in irresponsible shit who thought that he should have whataver he wanted and he's got a fabulous new life! Those other people just dragged him down man and so of course he has nothing to do with them.

I think the ISSUE is that Dave is an entitled DICK, a medical issue that is not uncommon.
Anyhoo :)

Oxyticin

Thanks arranfan, interesting article. Seems that there is need for further (and correctly carried out) research.

Researchers that are unable to replicate results of others should be making this known and should be able to publish their (lack of) findings in journals - its just as valid as research that finds "positive" results. Researchers need to be able to discuss all the findings - maybe the original research was flawed or maybe there were problems with the experimental equipment and techniques in the follow-up work.

Researchers that are unable to replicate results of others should be making this known and should be able to publish their (lack of) findings in journals

Agreed. Researchers have been calling for journals for negative results/non-replication and similar for years.

To quote Ed Yong in the last paragraph of his article...

This is why the neuroscience of oxytocin is so important. The inaccurately named “moral molecule” is still more of a mystery molecule, despite decades of work. And that mystery needs to be solved before it finds its way into the clinic

Interesting...