"over 70% of unprovoked street attacks were men being violent to other men."

[golondrina]

I commented on a tweet saying that men too are afraid of walking alone at night because of violence from other men. I said that it may be true that some men fear violent attack from other men, most don't. That men sometimes are afraid walking alone but that women are usually afraid of walking alone at night and that it was an important difference.

He's come back saying "over 70% of unprovoked street attacks were men being violent to other men" I want to reply with something specific, help me?

This thread has pissed me off massively. As a mum of two teenage boys I constantly worry when they go out socially that they may come to harm.

In fact it is school holidays over here right now. My youngest (14) wanted to go to meet up with a mate and 2 girls (omg he's still my baby) at the movies. Now no cinema in our suburb but closest to us can be accessed by bus or train. My preference is for him to go bus (better supervision as smaller area) but this time another suburb closer to friends he can only access by train (with changing lines). I dropped him and Dad picked up.

I cannot believe the arrogance of some random man daring to lecture about something that is always at the back of the mind of mums, then have the fucking audacity to blame it on single mums?

What's the matter mate? Going through a divorce? Your hatred is palpable. Hope she takes you to the cleaners. Fuck you.

Rant over.

Hope she takes you to the cleaners. - such an imagination.

Ok, I admit I was wrong.

It's all men's fault and women never have any influence over the way their sons turn out, even when they're the sole guardian...

Sole guardian? Interesting phrasing there. Maybe it is just my imagination. Or maybe sawdustformypony can cease with the gaslighting.

Is that the next insinuation used when the poster you'd usually accuse of being a man has already admitted to being a man?

I'm frankly quite amazed at the amount if words being out into my mouth/assumptions being made.

My principle point is just that it cannot be only men who are held accountable for tackling this problem when a large proportion of these violent men grow up living with a female.

Maybe somebody could be kind enough to explain the fallacy in my logic?

Que? Are you accusing me of misgendering the other poster? Maybe google gaslighting. Here's a hint nothing to do with lighting your own farts.

And no I'm not absolving the absent father of blame, but life has to go on afterwards.

Que? Are you accusing me of misgendering the other poster? Maybe google gaslighting. Here's a hint nothing to do with lighting your own farts.

Apologies, in think I misunderstood your post. I thought you were suggesting I was another poster in disguise.

And no I'm not absolving the absent father of blame

It's clear as day that you are.

but life has to go on afterwards

You mean, after the father has abandoned his family and left them in poverty? Or the mother has escaped a violent husband, again often meaning she is forced to raise her family in poverty?

Again, can you clarify if your sacred statistics control for the fact that single parent families are much more likely to suffer from poverty and other social problems which are well-known to correlate with high crime rates?

Hahaha gotta love an MRA
Man fucks off, woman stays and brings up children. Male child does something violent. Is this:
A) because he's angry at being abandoned by his father?
B) because of a complex interplay of factors like social class, the area he lives in and the fact he's male?
C) Because of some unspecified but common poor parenting on the part of the woman who has brought him up?

Yep. Definitely C. Male violence is womens fault.

Thank you IcedPurple said so much more eloquently than I could right now. I've been in a stable marriage for nearly 20 years. But raised by a single mother, and lived in poverty (my country's equivalent of what I think you call Council Estates, at least mum made sure I had a roof over my head).

Besides working and volunteering at a community centre. I've seen this stuff on the front line. Not the detached view of statistics.

And no I'm not absolving the absent father of blame

It's clear as day that you are.

No, I'm really not.

The starting point of the discussion was "sorry, men, but we can't help you with this". This is why I'm focusing on how women influence it - it is already a given that men can help.

But if you'd rather hear what you want to hear, that's fine. It's clear that you've already made your mind up and are doing what so many posters claimed never happens when mentioned recently on a thread - i.e. shutting down those who don't agree with the FWR group consensus.

So, Quentin, is your point that the single mother of a male child has no control, influence, or agency whatsoever and is completely not a factor in how he turns out?

But if you'd rather hear what you want to hear, that's fine.

Says the person who has repeatedly refused to answer the very pertinent questions posed by myself and others.

This is why I'm focusing on how women influence it - it is already a given that men can help.

But it's not women getting up one morning and deciding to leave their family in poverty, is it? It's almost always men. So if you're so concerned about the impact of single mother households, why don't you ask yourself just why so many men abandon their own children? No matter how awful the circumstances, women almost never do this. Men do, not infrequently. Isn't this the question you should be asking, but will not?

This is why I'm focusing on how women influence it - it is already a given that men can help.

And yet for some odd reason you remain unwilling to provide links to examples of you urging men to do just that. Funny that.

IcedPurple.

It's as if your trying today that once the man leaves the remaining spouse is totally helpless and that the child is already doomed.

This is most certainly not a given.

to say

The fact is feminist dont understand male violence at all.

That's why solutions such as "men sort it out" don't work and are unrealistic.

It's as if your trying today that once the man leaves the remaining spouse is totally helpless and that the child is already doomed.

Well, when the person who was likely the main earner in the household just gets up and f**ks off, leaving his wife and children with no means of support, it does kind of complicate things, it has to be said.

And as I said before, the factors I've mentioned exist with or without my presence.

Women's influence on their male children is not something that can be either recognised or dismissed solely because I as an individual don't know the exact solution to the questions you ask.

If anything, you are focusing your attention on me as an individual in a bid to divert from the topic at hand.

Well, when the person who was likely the main earner in the household just gets up and f**ks off, leaving his wife and children with no means of support, it does kind of complicate things, it has to be said.

Well, no shit Sherlock.

But are you saying that the mother of a male child has no agency whatsoever and shouldn't consider how she can help contribute to her son not becoming a violent male?

Seems nobody wants to answer that particular question.

Women's influence on their male children is not something that can be either recognised or dismissed solely because I as an individual don't know the exact solution to the questions you ask.

Why are you quoting statistics and using them as the sole basis for your argument if you haven't got a clue as to how they were obtained, ie, if other factors such as income and social class were controlled for?

Pretty elementary stuff.

You know, there probably are stats that have attempted to control for socioeconomic factors out there somewhere. Shame Scott is too lazy to look for them.

But are you saying that the mother of a male child has no agency whatsoever and shouldn't consider how she can help contribute to her son not becoming a violent male?

I'm saying that it's a lot easier to raise a well-adjusted individual when one of their parents hasnt' f*ced off and left them in poverty, and/or abused their mother to the point at which she felt she had to leave and do the best she could for her children.

Any updates on how your googled stats were obtained btw? Did the MRA cribsheet not provide that info?