AIBU to be bloody angry that so few famous pp who have a voice are talking about this?

[Destinysdaughter]

So in the last week both Alison Moyer and Glinner have basically been forced to leave Twitter because of the amount of abuse they’ve received for their views.

Most of the GC activism is coming from ordinary ( brilliant) women, often at great personal cost to themselves.

So my question is why aren’t famous pp, and women, who are usually really outspoken, talking about this? Jo Brand, Janet Street Porter, Shappi Korsandi, any of the female comedians? Helen Mirren, Olivia Coleman, Judi Dench, female DJs, literally ANYONE?? The silence is deafening. The only people ( women) who have brought this to people’s attention have been ordinary women, like ManFriday, Lisa Muggeridge, Posie Parker, Jean Hatchet etc

And a few female journalists. And as for female POLITICIANS most have been worse than useless

Is it because the women with voices are in such a position of power that any changes to the law won’t affect them? Or that they do understand the issues but don’t want to affect their careers? Or that they genuinely believe transvestites are women? ( erroneously thinking that they are men who’ve had their bits removed)

Following all these debates online I
find myself becoming more angry every day and I also see more women getting radicalised every day. But most of the women in power won’t talk about it. Why??

Estelle I agree. I'm so disappointed by Caitlin Moran, who is currently on tour by me, speaking about feminism among her topics. I bet she doesn't mention the debate. Her pal Grace Dent's been silent too.

I've been a fan of Caitlins for years, but now I've lost respect for her as a feminist and maybe that's not fair, but I can't help but feel (excuse hyperbole) betrayed somehow because they've built a reputation that includes feminism.

I know it's not their 'fault' but real women are losing jobs over this, friends, freedoms. Peole who aren't wealthy, like those celebs. We are 'outing' ourselves and dealing with that because it's the right thing to do.

But on the flip side, it must be terrifying to be in the public eye.

I now have respect for the likes of Posie, Janice, Julie, Kathleen, Nic and Fairplay, WPUK, Stephanie and Transgender Trend, Caroline Farrow, Debbie, Glinner, Man Fri and Sweary G, Lucy Bannerman, Hope (Sun journalist) and Beatrix Campbell, and so many other campaigners (sorry if I missed you out) and prominent Tweeters. Thank you.

I admire
Beatrix Campbell

@ThisIsTheFirstStep but a lot of them have children. The collateral damage alone to loved ones would make this off the table for most people, and I don't see that as cowardice. I see it as a terrible indictment of the current Orwellian climate, and one more consequence of out-and-out misogyny.

Criticising famous women for not throwing themselves under the bus - when there is no evidence it will help in the slightest - doesn't seem logical.

I meant to take out the admire BC line as I merged it with the rest.

It makes me sound weird.

I'm not like Alan Partridge's 'super fan' I assure you....

They are shackled by their love of money and status, they are slaves.

Ordinary I feel bad for even thinking it (because I wouldn't have the guts).

It isn't rational and my upset should be aimed at those who are doing this and facilitating it, but I feel let down and it isn't their 'fault' I know.

ordinary then they shouldn't espouse their feminist credentials in the first place.

Emma Watson doesn't have kids, and she went around lecturing everyone at every opportunity and speaking at the UN and acting like she invented feminism, and now where is she?

Of course it will help. The vast vast majority of people do not think TWAW. But the only people in the public eye willing to speak up have very little influence and are viewed with suspicion anyway. Jesus, even on reddit, hardly a bastion of lefty thought, terfs are despised.

People should speak up or shut up in my opinion. Yeah, you don't have to speak up if you don't want to, but don't expect me to take you seriously if you don't actually want to voice your opinion when you're going to get criticised.

Apologies - I've just RTFT properly and I see @IdaBWells has already articulated it far more lucidly than me 💐

Emma Watson and JK Rowling are shackled like Dobby, along with everyone else under the "he who must not be named" cult, they are powerless everyone who knows and stays silent.

Maybe because they don't agree with you?

Pink news commissioned a YouGov survey, the majority of the UK do agree with us. I have found this to be true when I speak to people on the street.

eastern Well since they're saying nothing either way, and since it would be super easy for them to just parrot some of the usual 'TWAW' stuff that so many are spouting these days, I'm going to assume their silence speaks volumes.

They're sitting on the fence in public because they're scared.

I doubt that eastern. If so they’d say so. Women who agree women have penises get lots of lovely virtue cookies and head pats.

Not making excuses here, merely suggesting one explanation: if a woman has children who are passionate TRAs then speaking out publicly against self-id could cause a permanent family rift. We all know how impossible it can be to argue the case with any TRA, and we know that cult members will jettison parents rather than abandon their beliefs. Not many women are prepared to undergo that lightly.

It is another Brexit for some people.

Their silence certainly tells us they no more think these men are women than we do.

I don't think that 1. these women have to comment on every single issue and 2. I think equally the converse of your statement is true. If they did come out in support of trans rights they'd have you lot to deal with!

They can't win. If I was high profile I'd be keeping my views to myself as well!

Politicians and famous people should watch the film 'The Post' that's what is needed.

I certainly think it's possible that lots of them believe transwomen are women. I think they should day so if they do. It's possible though they think the backlash from saying so will be worse in terms of lost sales - most of them sell to women. Both sides in this feel a sense of embattled grievance and like the other side is a tiny minority who has got a disproportionate voice.

I'm on the GC side because i think being trans is obviously a cultural, psychological and creative response to trauma; classically from a homophobic/terrified father and weak/abused mother who puts an intact home/relationship over protecting their children; with a massive dash of social contagion creating ROGD. I could no more say TWAW than i could fly. But i hope i'm not so blind that i can't see that perfectly intelligent people could disagree with me. I'm also suspicious of the groundswell of right wing opinion on this - happy that it may prevent dangerous legal change but a lot of right wingers blame feminists for the trans movement. There will be unintended consequences.

Having said that, i saw a friend for the first time in a long while this week. She works somewhere incredibly relevant to this whole debate. Im not going to out her but it was incredibly energising and worrying to find out how strongly she feels about it all. It emboldened me to do more. So it's worth talking about it.

easternedge 🤔 they ‘can’t win?’ Yeah they can. By doing the right thing. If you’re a famous person who’s created a platform for yourself based largely on being outspoken on women’s rights, it’s pretty transparent when you stay silent on the trickier or less popular issues. As far as ‘dealing with us lot’... what, women who stand up for themselves? And challenge others to engage some critical thinking? We don’t dox, threaten or shut down.

I’m personally more concerned with women who have less privilege than me and can’t avoid sharing spaces with males... like the women in prison attacked by Karen White or the beaten and abused women in a refuge who might have to share intimate spaces with males while trying to recover... or the young girls trying on bras in Topshop who feel nervous and unsure of what to do about the man in the changing room next to them...

I mean, worrying about rich celebrities receiving a few angry tweets is kind of lame when you think of what actual abuse looks like

penny yes, totally agree.

No one in the (western) world is going to disagree if you say 'women deserve equality'. That's just wishy washy pish. If you actually stick your neck out, of course some people are going to come for you.

I must admit every time I see a Twitter post from Caitlin Moran I'm disappointed. She's commenting on American politics a lot but no mention of the GRA or how that will impact women.
I have always seen her as being outspoken and 'saying it like it is' for women and perhaps irrationally I feel let down that she's avoiding this topic.
If she supports the changes to the GRA then I'd be really interested to hear why.

All the pontificating at others and they can't practice what they preach. As I say they are shackled by their love of money and status.

As a contrast, just look at this brave woman standing up for children and what she believes in, at great personal cost to herself...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ATNRbJW_JI8

You know that if there was a big enough shift away from the GRA, they'd be happy to jump on the bandwagon. No harm in voicing your opinion when there are plenty of you or when Beyonce is doing it.

If CM or EW or any of the others mentioned genuinely believe that;

• Some women have penises
• it’s OK to tell kids who don’t confirm to gender stereotypes that there is something wrong with their bodies and that they just need surgery and drugs that will leave them sterile to fix it
• That it’s fine to redefine ‘woman’ to mean ‘anyone who says they’re a woman including violent predatory males’
• That it’s fine for boys to compete and win against girls if they say they are girls too
• That girls and women should not have their own safe spaces despite the global epidemic levels of violence against women
• That ladies with penises should be allowed into every single safe space that girls and women have created to keep men out and keep themselves safe
• That women who stand up for their boundaries are hateful bigots
• That women should not be allowed to meet safely to discuss their rights and that it’s ok to disrupt their meetings, deny them a platform and assault them when they try to meet
• That lesbians are bigots if they don’t want to have sex with people with penises

Then they are free to say so. We will robustly disagree with them and justifiably question the feminist credentials of anyone who espouses such MRA ideas.

What we will not do is dox, threaten and assault them.