AIBU to be bloody angry that so few famous pp who have a voice are talking about this?

[Destinysdaughter]

So in the last week both Alison Moyer and Glinner have basically been forced to leave Twitter because of the amount of abuse they’ve received for their views.

Most of the GC activism is coming from ordinary ( brilliant) women, often at great personal cost to themselves.

So my question is why aren’t famous pp, and women, who are usually really outspoken, talking about this? Jo Brand, Janet Street Porter, Shappi Korsandi, any of the female comedians? Helen Mirren, Olivia Coleman, Judi Dench, female DJs, literally ANYONE?? The silence is deafening. The only people ( women) who have brought this to people’s attention have been ordinary women, like ManFriday, Lisa Muggeridge, Posie Parker, Jean Hatchet etc

And a few female journalists. And as for female POLITICIANS most have been worse than useless

Is it because the women with voices are in such a position of power that any changes to the law won’t affect them? Or that they do understand the issues but don’t want to affect their careers? Or that they genuinely believe transvestites are women? ( erroneously thinking that they are men who’ve had their bits removed)

Following all these debates online I
find myself becoming more angry every day and I also see more women getting radicalised every day. But most of the women in power won’t talk about it. Why??

Quite. Lots of fun writing about feminism and making lots of money from doing so. Actually sticking your neck out for women? Ooh, no, fuck that.

I saw this book advertised the other day. Looks great and all but I’m willing to bet NOT ONE of the feminists who contributed would have a single word to say on the very real attack on women’s rights that is happening now. www.amazon.co.uk/Feminists-Dont-Wear-Pink-other/dp/0241357187?tag=mumsnetforum-21

I'm not sure it's simply a case of wanting to preserve their careers.
We've seen violent threats and at least one assault from trans activists. A lot of the nastier threats involve doing something horrendous as an example to the other 'terfs'.
I've seen a good few people on Twitter who are seriously unhinged and clearly dangerous. Any famous woman speaking openly would be an automatic target for stalking and violence, and the higher the profile, the higher the risk.
It wouldn't be just herself she'd be risking, it'd be her children too. I would be scared to speak openly too. Hell, I am and I'm no one.
I do wish women like JK Rowling would speak up, but I completely understand why they don't.

Sadly I get it. I'm not famous obviously but on Sunday I was explaining self Id to my partner. When the penny dropped with my partner he got quite worried (he has daughters) but told me there was nothing we could do. I replied that there was and I was going to make as much noise as possible!
I got into uni on Monday and the lecturer starting telling us about our professional code of conduct that we had to adhere to.
I immediately felt silenced. I am only GC now with my immediate circle of friends and family but I was (really I was) going to stick my head above the parapet.

I’m so bloody angry right now, I feel like going out and spray painting in huge bloody letters, Women don’t have penises, all over the place! It is literally incredible and terrifying that a poster saying Woman: Adult human female is considered hate speech and removed. Bloody love Posie Parker for all she’s done but boy has she paid the price for it.

Is it really as simple as the story of the Emperor's New Clothes, where everyone just nods along because they don't want to be thought of as stupid, just for pointing out the facts?

You know people talk about people in history and discuss if they would have been involved in suffrage etc. Well now we know who would and who wouldn't have been.

They are self-serving cowards, now they know it and we know it.

The silence from rich privileged women who purport to be feminists is deafening on this issue.

We can spend the rest of time reminding them and laughing at them.

I really don’t think you can be angry with Emma Watson and JKR or other slebs.

Politicians and journalists - whole different story. They SHOULD be talking about it. Caitlin Moran is someone I previously liked. But she isn’t actually serving womankind by being a feminist journalist on a national newspaper who ignores the feminist issue of the day.

Absolutely no interest in fight a battle that might be controversial among her own circle.

If a politician has death threats they get police support. It's their job and they aren't doing th job.

On politics live yesterday they said they knew free speech was a corner pin of democracy, they show us from their behavior they are happy to allow democracy to fall.

I think it’s fear, genuine fear for their children and themselves.

MPs like Jess Phillips get threatening abuse emails/tweets every time they mention women’s rights. I’m not sure I’d put my life on the line if I had young children especially in light of what happened to Jo Cox.

How many retired MPs are childless, none of them are speaking out either.

Exactly Lizzie and DayMay. I was just about to post this long frustrated rant regarding all of this..

Unfortunately people (women) are terrified. They are terrified of male violence, physical violence, emotional abuse and bullying, being screamed at, belittled and shouted down. Women are already dealing with enough stress in their lives and we all actively avoid toxic people. Also many famous women now live in the USA where misogynistic ideology has already motivated young men to go out and kill women. 22 yr old Elliott Rodgers who grew up in wealth and privilege had serious mental health problems. He was frustrated by his virginity which he blamed on women who his actively hated.

In a hateful rampage he shot and killed Katherine Cooper 22 and Veronica Weiss outside Aplha Phi house their sorority.

He stabbed to death 3 young men Chang Yuan Hong 20, Weihan Wang 20 and George Chan.

He injured 14 while driving around in the BMW his parents had bought for him and fatally shot Christopher Michaels-Martinez 20.

Rodgers is now a hero to incels, lonely and angry men that believe there are entitled to women’s bodies and are frustrated at their inability to attract women.

25 yr old Alex Minasssian in Toronto, Canada was inspired by Rodgers and considered him a hero. He is charged with 10 counts of murder and 13 counts of attempted murder after he intentionally drove a van into people walking on a busy street in April 2018.

“The 10 dead and 14 wounded are “predominantly” women, ranging in age from their 20s to their 80s the police said”.

Unfortunately people who are mentally unbalanced can easily get access to guns in the USA and drawing attention to yourself, unless you are rich enough to afford 24/7 protection could lead to your death.

Look at Gabrielle Giffords the Arizona congress woman who was shot in 2011 while she was meeting constituents in a Safeway car park. She survived but was left with a severe head injury.

The gunman was 23 year old Jared Kee Loughner. As well as Gabby he shot 24 others, killing 6 and wounding 18. Among those he murdered was 9 year old Christina-Taylor Green who had just been elected to the student council at her primary school and was interested in politics.

There are a lot of disturbed angry men out there and so many of them when they are miserable blame women.

I admire Julie Bindel’s bravery and all the others like her because I assume Julie does travel to North America. As Brits I don’t think we appreciate the very real fear of a situation quickly escalating by someone pulling out a gun. My own American MIL has a twin sister. her twin sister’s best friend was murdered by her boyfriend using a gun. She was in her 50s at the time.

Going back to the ideology of trans activists, they call us violent and that young people learning about this for the first time should fear those crazy TERFs - but seriously, when have women taken up arms and used their anger against injustice to kill men and others? Or even display acts of violence? Women are involved in violent crimes but our very rare participation is the exception that proves the rule. Many women have children and they don’t want to do anything that exposes their children. What did these men do in doxxing Posie? They immediately tried to make her family especially her children, vulnerable.

Famous people, generally speaking, will prioritise one thing: themselves. Their career will always be more important. A few have spoken out and that’s all you’ll get.

Janet Street Porter thinks TWAW she’s spoken to Caitlin Jenner loads and I’ve seen YouTube clips of them on loose women talking about it- hello! She’s on Loose Women.

I get the impression that those who believe TWAW are as narcissistic as the Emperor, they want to believe there is something special about them too, that they can see the invisible fabric.

Estelle

I agree.

I will ever forgive the NSPCC and Amnesty, either

I know of one of the names mentioned here and the issue has been raised to them but they haven’t stepped up. It’s not because they don’t know about it. It’s because of the personal cost to them and their career.
I understand this, in my industry I also could not be GC at work.
The floodgates will open eventually and everyone sensible will jump on the bandwagon but it might be too late.

I really don’t think you can be angry with Emma Watson and JKR or other slebs

If Watson had stuck to being an actress, I wouldn't be angry with her. But her entire career and image post-HP has been based on trumpeting her supposed feminist credentials. I see this in the same way I do Sophie Walker and the WEP - they're taking up political, intellectual and media space whilst obscuring the most pressing issues facing women in this country today. Which makes them a lot worse than being merely useless.

I’m on a group and they were complaining how transphobic the National Autism society is as they’ve cut links with Mermaids. I don’t think people realise how serious it all is. I’m hugely concerned that this isn’t being spoken about and it seems anyone who speaks out gets a lot of abuse. A man dressed in “women’s clothes” can now be seen as a woman. Why does no one see this as a problem? I’d have hoped some famous women would’ve gotten together and spoken out.

But why on earth should they speak up and expose their careers, their children, their peace of mind, their mental health, their privacy, their personal safety and their every public appearance to the kind of terrifying, excoriating abuse and in many cases actual assault that is directed at ANYBODY who so much as raises a gentle query or concern with the TRA dogma?

There's no evidence to suggest that a prominent celebrity being burned to the ground and having their life completely destroyed by certain sections of the TRA community is going to magically create the kind of respectful, comprehensive, forensic, balanced debate between the various perspectives that is so sorely needed.

KateGrey What group said that? The NAS still directs people to NHS & Stonewall regarding questions or support for gender identity issues. They just removed that one organisation for obvious reasons- an organisation that still links to the convicted Dr Webberley who gives hormones to young children illegally.

It makes me angry too DestinysD, it's also why I have no problem celebrating sensible GC articles by people like Rod Liddle, Melanie Philips or something in The Daily Mail. At least they're saying something about the current insanity! I think it is self-preservation and I think there are parallels with the silence from many preceeding #metoo as well.
I know that Sarah Ditum, Julie Bindel and Boodleoops have tweeted about their frustration at people privately contacting them to express their support whilst not being able to risk saying anything themselves, even though it has cost Sarah, Julie and Boodleoops a great deal in terms of career and abuse. Also they are frustrated by those just wading in to the debate saying simplistic 'we just need to talk to eachother' type platitudes. I can understand how it must piss them off.
I am very grateful indeed for Sarah Ditum, Janice Turner, Hadley, Helen Lewis et al but yes, pissed at plenty of others who have a lot to say on some issues, but apparently can't openly define a woman or defend their right to meet and discuss their issues.

I’m very careful what I say at work so I’ve no business pointing the finger at anyone, but I do single out a small number who - from where I’m sitting - should be wealthy enough or old enough not to care.

JK Rowling, who need never work again, is one of them, also Harriet Harman and Jenny Murray who are close to the end of their careers. Likewise Polly Toynbee who’s written about women's rights all her working life (admittedly other stuff too). But even then there’s still a high personal cost and the threats to their safety. I think we should be careful not to turn on each other.

ordinary I'd say it's because some of them have made an awful lot of money off of saying they're feminists, but now, when the time comes, they're too scared to actually say anything. They used it when it was worth something to them, but now that it would get them into trouble, they are silent.

That is total cowardice in my opinion. They're happy to take the plaudits when they come, but not to take the criticism. It's easy and it's safe. It's virtue signalling, basically, much as I've come to hate that term.

Meanwhile, ordinary women are getting yelled at, called bigots, being doxxed, fearing for their jobs.

These days, the phrase "cometh the hour, cometh the (wo)man" comes to my mind regularly. When there is a time of crisis, you can see who actually steps up; and there are pitifully few people who actually do.

Sophie Scholl: "How can we expect fate to let a righteous cause prevail when there is hardly anyone who will give himself up undividedly to a righteous cause?"

My position is I am not keeping quiet in RL. Nobody has been horrible about it in my personal circle. I am out on the streets speaking to the public and the vast majority don't believe TWAW.

No males, no lies
Women will not compromise

You can see how Hitler took over Germany. I actually feel pity for people who won't speak out.

I view people who allow this as powerless small people inside along with the Emperor, they are like that creature Harry Potter encounters under the bench at Kings cross station during a discussion with Dumbledore.

I look at Posie Parker and others, they are giants with no shackles whilst others are slaves to bullying TRA.

Freedom feels good.

Harriet Harman had this to say last year:

"But Harman also recognises that young women – and young feminists – today face a very different world, and often a different set of issues. I ask her to respond to Jenny Murray’s recent comments regarding transgender women, and she states: “I think that people who are transgender face a very high level of difficulty and discrimination and that should never be underestimated.”

However, she adds: “I also think we have to recognise that there are some men who would want to falsely claim to be transgender to infiltrate women only spaces.”

“We just need to be clear that we protect those who are transgender from discrimination, but we make sure that women only spaces are not encroached upon by men who are simply using the transgender label when they’re not transgender at all.”"

I wish she'd be more vocal, not like she's a wallflower usually.