Child in my class is trans

[theresheis]

Looking for some advice. I'm a long time lurker and whilst I have read lots of the posts surrounding the issues of trans rights and consider myself firmly in the gender critical camp I am not fully up to speed with the current legal situation surrounding the trans debate.

I am a primary school teacher and I teach eight-year-olds. I have a boy in my class who at home is going by a girl's name, using female pronouns and wearing girl's clothes. This has not happened at all in school and he has not spoken to his peers about this. His mum spoke to me recently and said she had taken him to the GP. She is supporting him but seems to be not overly pushing it. She is a single mum and she is somebody who I would describe as vulnerable.

His mum now has another GP appointment next week without the boy. I am wondering whether the GP is likely to signpost a charity which will advocate a transition?

I would like to know where I stand as his class teacher if it comes to it am I required to call him she/her etc?

I would say that none of the staff in the school would be aware that all of these issues and broadly would support his transition.

I have told the head that I am not prepared to tell the rest of the class that he has become a girl or ever was a girl. He looked pretty shocked and said he would go away and research this issue. Where could I suggest he looks?

Sorry quite a long post! Hope I've posted in relevant section.

I know that's hard FloralBunting because I myself have a nonbinary identifying child who's survived very poor mental health difficulties . This isn't about telling parents what to do. It's about raising awareness of the impact of minority stress.

I've looked on the Samaritans website. Point me to the sentences in question as I can't find the advice people are describing

Here you are, spannablue

Language matters. Avoid dramatic headlines and terms such as ‘suicide epidemic’ or ‘hot spot’.

Young people are especially vulnerable to negative suicide coverage.

Speculation about the ‘trigger’ for a suicide, even if provided by a close family member, should be avoided.

And perhaps most pertinent to the current discussion:

Use statistics with caution. Check with Samaritans or the relevant national statistical agency to make sure you have the most recent data and are comparing like with like.

www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide/suicide-reporting-10-things-remember

guidance for media coverage of suicide

www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide

Ok but these are guidelines for journalists, not Mumsnet discussions

More here, spannablue

www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide/best-practice-suicide-reporting-tips

1. Think about the impact of the coverage on your audience
Your story might have an effect on vulnerable individuals or people connected to the person who has died.

Providing information on how to contact appropriate local and national sources of support can encourage people experiencing emotional problems or suicidal thoughts to seek help.

It can save lives.

How often do the people shouting about the trans child suicide risk mention where they can get support? And I mean organisations like the Samaritans - not Mermaids.

Ok but these are guidelines for journalists, not Mumsnet discussions

They are guidelines for anyone reporting on the issue, or discussing it in the media - for example discussions on TV and radio. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard about the number of 'trans' children who attempt suicide on TV and radio broadcasts, and I've never heard anyone mention where suicidal people can get help following the airing of the dubious suicide stats.

Piece oF purple sky
As a teacher there are many times you have to put aside personal beliefs for the sake of the children I teach.
In 20 years there have been many things I have not agreed with from parents and pupils. However my job is to educate and not judge.
I teach three transgender pupils (all f to m) I treat them exactly the same as before with different pronouns. Just as I taught the child of a prominent BNP member who followed their father's thoughts to the letter. And the Jehovah child who talked about medical
Intervention being wrong.

The children that you mention- Jehovah's witness and child of BNP member- held beliefs which could be considered harmful to the other children. Did you allow them to present these beliefs as fact? Did you insist that other pupils agreed with them? Or did you gently encourage respectful debate and discussion?

In the case of a transgender child, the beliefs they hold could equally be considered harmful to the other children- the idea that people have gendered souls which can be born in the 'wrong' body. The belief in 'ladybrain'. That gender is more important than, and should always override, biological sex. If teachers accept this without question, allow all children to decide which toilet/changing facilities they use and insist on use of preferred pronouns- that would be promoting the child's beliefs as facts. Such a teacher would be preventing the other children from considering the facts and arriving at their own opinions.

Of course, spannablue, you, Mermaids and the rest of the TRA are free to drive teenagers to suicide by repeating the false suicide stats ad nauseam. If that makes you guys feel better...

And this:

Remember that there is a risk of imitational behaviour due to ‘over-identification’.

Vulnerable individuals may identify with a person who has died, or with the circumstances in which a person took their own life.

It's clear that continuously making the connection between suicide and being transgender is going to increase the risk of suicide amongst young transgender people.

How do you know if another child in the class has an issue re trans stuff?

There is must to suggest there are elements of social contagion (yet we are not allowed to research this). Nor even mention it, cos that's bad and evil. Even though school are getting large numbers of kids all coming out at the same time, in a way that raises questions that need answering.

The idea that the teacher knows what all the children think is frankly bizarre. They accept it because grown ups have told them they have to. I'd have never expressed any discomfort or talked about a problem with a teacher. If it had confused me I'd not do anything.

Frankly as an adult, it took me ten years to really find words or be able to understand what was bothering me about what happened with my sibling and how my reality of experience wasn't important and my sense of who I was came after theirs. I just had a melt down and couldn't cope which was totally inexplicable. The well meaning walking on eggshells you do grinds you down, and come at a personal cost. And you don't even realise it or how you do it.

The idea that kids are 'just more accepting' I don't necessarily buy in to for this reason. It makes too many assumptions. The kids know that a child is different in some way. They might be very tolerant of someone, in a way that adults aren't but that doesn't mean they aren't aware of the difference and feel 100% happy about it either. Social pressure is a greater silencer as a kid.

Not being able to express that difference or talk freely about the difference between the sexes for fear of upsetting the trans kid isn't good. It makes it harder for important lessons about boundaries which might help keep kids safe later in life to be had and it makes it harder to talk about certain issues especially if kids are embarrassed or nervous about the subject of sex. It makes it harder to raise issues if you are not 100% comfortable in a situation. Good kids are well intentioned and do think about other kids to be nice. But that's not necessarily good for them.

And yes whilst we are on the subject trans kids have siblings and they are very very rarely even mentioned. And this is important in a school setting. If a sibling is having issues, being instantly labelled as transphobic for saying certain things, it never gives them opportunity to work through how they feel. The positive affirmation stuff works against them, if they have negative feelings about what is happening in their family. And they can feel guilty or as if they are bad for having negative thoughts as a result.

I noticed in the press in the case of Lily Madigan there was some interesting comments on how the school were supporting one of Madigan's younger siblings.

Everything being so centred on the well being of the trans kid misses so much. A culture where any dissent or question is prohibited and forbidden is harmful. There has to be space for it. And that's lead by the culture in politics in general, way before it gets to the classroom.

I spent years torturing myself thinking people would think I was a regressive Conservative reactionary when a lot of it was more down to having no social space to question or consider how it did impact on me in negative way. That's completely separate to whether you are tolerant of someone else. You can be tolerant and still negatively impacted.

I think that society as a whole is so not ready for what is proposed in self ID. Most people have no idea what's even going on. Its all the unintended ripple effects that will work through 5, 10, 15 even 20 years later. No one comprehends the enormity of it. A lot of the early lesbian rad fems do, because they've been dealing with it for some time. But the authorities don't.

That's what gets me most tbh. The minimising of it to say its just about being nice to a kid and respecting their pronouns.

Like fuck it is.

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard about the number of 'trans' children who attempt suicide on TV and radio broadcasts, and I've never heard anyone mention where suicidal people can get help following the airing of the dubious suicide stats

Repetition of the high probabilities of suicide ideation / attempts etc will affect those who are vulnerable.

It is extraordinary that the guidelines are ignored with regards young people questioning theirgender identity.

Especially when done so frequently by those who advocate for this group.

How many trans kids have you talked with about this Deepwatersolo? Because I am basing my opinion on what makes trans teens feel anxious/depressed on the research I've read and my own academic research with lots of young trans people.

I think it's fallacious to accuse someone who is raising awareness of a risk of increasing that risk by talking about it. That's like refusing to discuss safer sex or contraception in secondary schools in case it gives young people the idea to have sex.

And I'm not on telly, I'm having a discussion on Mumsnet.

Also nobody has responded to the question about discussing depression (ie if suicide statistics were not up for discussion)

Still no answers to my questions about specific safeguarding loopholes that put gender-questioning children outwith statutory frameworks and at risk to infiltrating abusers, I see.

Oh well. If NSPCC run away rather than address them, what else could I expect? We'll just carry on recommending that vulnerable children can entrust secrets to adults with no oversight. What could possibly go wrong?

That's like refusing to discuss safer sex or contraception in secondary schools in case it gives young people the idea to have sex.

No, it's like constantly repeating all over the media that kids from 'X' group are more likely to engage in sexual activity without protection. Shouting it everywhere: 'look at all these X kids! It's terrible! They're all going to get STDs!'

It's like saying this, without ever adding that bit at the bottom saying 'here's how you can get free condoms.'

Is that going to make it more or less likely that X kids see themselves as likely to have unprotected sex? More or less likely that they actually engage in unprotected sex?

I think it's fallacious to accuse someone who is raising awareness of a risk of increasing that risk by talking about it.

So you disagree with the Samaritans. I take it you have lots of published research which you'd be willing to share with them to show them where they're going wrong.

Ok but these are guidelines for journalists, not Mumsnet discussions

Can you explain why its never been respected during a single debate on TV or why it constantly keeps on appearing in quotes in the press?

MNetters challenge it. TV hosts, radio hosts and newspaper editors keep on letting it go and sensational it.

It's shameful.

Re safeguarding: as anyone who's ever been involved in safeguarding work will know, it's much more complex than this. You have to take each case on its merits. If a kid is expressing gender issues, how you talk to parents about that would depend on the history of safeguarding issues in the family. For example, if there's a history of domestic violence towards the kid accompanied by transphobic or homophobic language, a professional might think twice before informing parents that their kid has come out as nonbinary or whatever.
Re GIDS treatment, nothing's going to happen without parental participation.

Re Samaritans, as I said, the only advice I've seen quoted here is for journalists. I won't return to this here again unless I see new info.

what do you reckon to discussing self harm, depression and anxiety?

Sure - can we start by talking about binders?

In answer to questions I have read many documents on it from various sources. Those provided in school and those elsewhere. I stand by the fact it is not my job to judge.
As for other kids being accepting - they generally are. Every child in my school has had citizenship and pshe on sex, gender and no means no. They were held by a variety of people including straight, gay, bisexual, transgender and pupils were able to ask as many questions as they wanted.

My son goes to a nearby school and has had the same. Maybe it is just round here but it has been handled sensitively and pupils have been given the option to discuss their thoughts.

I am glad that it has been handled in this way. Whatever an adults spin is this I have found children much less judgemental and accepting as they have been informed of every option and are able to talk about it. So @MrsKCastle all children have been considered

I do not discuss suicide statistics with dysphoric kids, let alone fake ones, because I have no interest in driving them to suicide. I had two young people at my work place who got one another so whipped up in suicide ideation that both attempted suicide within a week. ( no they were not trans. Suicide ideation is a thing among teens generally, ya know).
I believe it is quite sick of adult TRAs to whip up a suicide frenzy among teens, just to validate their own identity.

Shall tell you why the suicide thing gets my goat is because there are many people like myself that have followed that action and it had nothing to do with trans, it was mental health issue. You see felling or attempting suicide is a mental health issue (there are vast many mental health issue that get you to that print) it doesn’t solely belong to trans and I’m pissed off that the whole frigging agenda of trans is taking over everything. I’m disgusted that cancer is also used. I’m disgusted at the latest bullying towards autism.

Transactivist started with all this statistics stuff.

Seems to be only the drug addicts and alcoholics are safe, well at the moment.

I’m sick to the back teeth of trans being the whole world is resolved around. I’m sick of seeing men call themselves women whilst out and proud of their penis.

I will fight tooth and nail against this trans brainwashing stuff. The harassment, threats and abuse has pushed me so far against ever accepting it anymore and I’ve lost any empathy for anyone now who wish to genuinely transition. I don’t do the blame game but the responsibility lies with the transactivist.

Did one of the trans leaders honestly think he was going to get Catholic Church on his side, did he think he could bully them.

Yes my SPAG is rubbish

Spectator Podcast:

"Madeleine Kearns adds – teachers are now at the frontline of the transgender politics, being given new guidance on primary school children’s gender identity, telling them to avoid ‘outing’ a trans pupil to their parents.
Madeleine joins the podcast with India Willoughby, a transgender activist, newsreader and television personality. The bottom line, for Madeleine, is that children often don’t know their minds:

‘I’ve worked as a nanny, I’ve worked with special needs kids. I think children are confused about what they want for breakfast, never mind what gender they are. And I think it’s important that we do recognise that children are children and playing around with boundaries is a normal part of childhood.’

But India makes the point that gender dysphoria – the phenomenon of being severely uncomfortable with the sex of your biological body – is often hard to understand for people who don’t experience it:

‘All the people who complain, or try and insinuate that transgender people are a threat or confused in some way, are not transgender… The charities involved – Mermaids being the most well known for services to children – you have people in there who have families, who are ordinary people, they lead normal lives, they have an unhappy child who, through being helped and supported by the parents, become happy. And what business is it of other people on the outside?"

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/the-spectator-podcast-should-we-educate-children-on-transgender-issues/

You mean the episode when Dr. Horrors tweeted at the Pope? Well, that Highlight almost had redeeming qualities, I have to say. But one probably has to grow up a Catholic to fully appreciate the absurd Quality of said Tweet.