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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Child in my class is trans

298 replies

theresheis · 04/10/2018 20:39

Looking for some advice. I'm a long time lurker and whilst I have read lots of the posts surrounding the issues of trans rights and consider myself firmly in the gender critical camp I am not fully up to speed with the current legal situation surrounding the trans debate.

I am a primary school teacher and I teach eight-year-olds. I have a boy in my class who at home is going by a girl's name, using female pronouns and wearing girl's clothes. This has not happened at all in school and he has not spoken to his peers about this. His mum spoke to me recently and said she had taken him to the GP. She is supporting him but seems to be not overly pushing it. She is a single mum and she is somebody who I would describe as vulnerable.

His mum now has another GP appointment next week without the boy. I am wondering whether the GP is likely to signpost a charity which will advocate a transition?

I would like to know where I stand as his class teacher if it comes to it am I required to call him she/her etc?

I would say that none of the staff in the school would be aware that all of these issues and broadly would support his transition.

I have told the head that I am not prepared to tell the rest of the class that he has become a girl or ever was a girl. He looked pretty shocked and said he would go away and research this issue. Where could I suggest he looks?

Sorry quite a long post! Hope I've posted in relevant section.

OP posts:
gendercritter · 04/10/2018 20:41

Have you read the information provided by Transgender Trend? That would be a good place to start

NowtSalamander · 04/10/2018 20:43

You’ve definitely posted in the right section!
The thing to read, and to give to your head, is the transgender trend schools guidance pack. Google it, or someone else more computer literate than me will be able to do a clicky link, I’m sure.

Judder · 04/10/2018 20:44

You can download the Transgender Trend resource pack for schools here:
www.transgendertrend.com/schools-resources/

It's a very useful website too

silentcrow · 04/10/2018 20:45

First place you need to look is www.transgendertrend.com/ - they have a very sensible schools pack; you can also find lots of Stephanie Davies-Arai's talks under WPUK and Let A Woman Speaks YouTube channels. And you need to have an urgent discussion with your safeguarding lead because the issue of toilets and changing will come up if they push for the change at school, plus if you run overnight trips sleeping arrangements will be a problem.

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 04/10/2018 20:45

I really feel for you. I also suggest Transgender Trend. I salute you for saying you will not collude in an untruth - nor would I and I'd be prepared to resign over it.

silentcrow · 04/10/2018 20:49

Also Flowers for you. Please make sure you keep up whatever self-care works for you - this is a highly-charged, difficult debate and those of us on the sharp end (rather than the theoretical bollocks activists come out with with no care for children) need to look after ourselves and each other.

Oh, today's Spectator has this good article, too: www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/dont-tell-the-parents-official-guidance-to-teachers-of-trans-children/amp/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_content=061018_Weekly_Highlights_40_NONSUBS&utm_campaign=Weekly_Highlights&__twitter_impression=true

OneEpisode · 04/10/2018 20:52

There was a very balanced article in the Atlantic here www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/
If that helps as a resource. Talks about the child’s needs.

Ekphrasis · 04/10/2018 20:59

I'd involve the senco too to see if there's any other professional support available. I feel mum needs support too.

heresyandwitchcraft · 04/10/2018 21:15

I think it's very worth looking at the GIDS Evidence Base page - it has lots of very good information about the actual scientific evidence, and is from a reputable source.

Here is the link:
gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base

They have specific advice on social transition:

Social transition age

The age at which adolescents socially transition has decreased in the last decade. Steensma & Cohen-Kettenis (2011) report that between 2000 and 2004, out of 121 pre-pubertal children, 3.3% had socially transitioned (clothing, hairstyle, change of name, and use of pronouns) when they were referred, and 19% were living in the preferred gender role in clothing style and hairstyle, but did not announce that they wanted a change in name and pronoun. Between 2005 and 2009, these percentages increased to 8.9% and 33.3% respectively.

However, quantitative and qualitative follow-up studies by Steensma et al (2011; 2013) present evidence to strongly suggest that early social transition does not necessarily equate to an adult transgender identity. The qualitative study reports on two girls who had transitioned when they were in elementary school and struggled with the desire to return to their original gender role. Fear of teasing and feeling ashamed resulted in a prolonged period of stress. One girl even struggled to go back to her previous gender role for two years.

As such, in our approach, we would encourage exploration of gender roles in this younger cohort, with a view to keeping options open and not having any pre-conceived ideas as the longer term outcome.

And they have a separate page about desistance:
gids.nhs.uk/continuing-and-not-continuing-studies

There is evidence that many transgender children experience incongruence between their experienced and their assigned gender early in life (Steensma et al, 2013). At GIDS, about 15-25% of our referrals are for children aged under 12. Often these children do not identify with stereotypical behaviours and preferences of their assigned gender peers, and sometimes strongly dislike their physical sex characteristics.

In the majority of cases these feelings seem to discontinue either before, or early in, puberty (Steensma et al, 2013). In some children, however, gender dysphoric feelings will intensify during adolescence expressed by an aversion of their bodies in the context of secondary sex characteristics developing.

Across all studies approximately 16% continue with their gender identification (Steensma et al, 2013). The way gender identity develops and how gender identification is expressed seems to be influenced by biological, environmental and psychological factors (De Cuypere et al., 2013; de Vries et. al., 2014; Steensma & Cohen-Kettenis 2015).

It might be worth looking at the website itself, and examining the advice from the clinical experts alongside with the evidence base.
As I understand it, the key is for the kid to feel heard, accepted and allowed to explore who they are, and how they express themselves in a safe environment. A supportive, "watch and wait" approach is what I pick up from the GIDS advice.

scepticalwoman · 04/10/2018 21:26

Make sure that your classroom is one of mutual respect. Ensure tolerance and kindness.

While I understand your reservations about what you tell the class I would respectfully suggest that you ask the Head / senior staff to decide what the children should be told and you follow that. The child should in no way be in the middle of any of our adult reservations / feelings / debates. The child shouldn't be criticised or celebrated for this. Focus on your role as a teacher with their learning, development and welfare.
Hope that makes sense? Not meaning to be critical but, as we all know, these are difficult issues and if you can ensure that the child gets all the validation, support and interest from you for their learning and development, then that's what matters. Be matter of fact about their presentation and make sure you get some agreed responses to give to children when your'e asked questions. Hope that helps?

donquixotedelamancha · 04/10/2018 21:30

I have told the head that I am not prepared to tell the rest of the class that he has become a girl or ever was a girl.

Presumably you have to teach Science? There is very little national curriculum left but I thought sex education was still compulsory even in free schools? Teaching that a boy can become a girl would create problems for us secondary school teachers who have to get them to pass reality based exams.

Back to the point:

Your number one priority is your children's wellbeing. That means making sure it is handled in a low key way which avoids singling this child out. It means making sure all students in the class are comfortable and supported.

The lad should be able to wear female uniform without issue and you need to be vigilant to make sure he doesn't get grief. This is a fab chance to teach your class that clothes are not sexed.

I would try to steer mum and school to a cautious approach and if possible avoid the issue of toilets/pronouns/changing space (for the reasons outlined in the fab post above). If problems arise aim for compromises which avoid anyone being uncomfortable.

If people mention mermaids I'd gently try to steer elsewhere without getting yourself in trouble. I'd echo what scepticalwoman said- you can give an opinion, but it's the head's call.

I would like to know where I stand as his class teacher if it comes to it am I required to call him she/her etc

Call him what he wants to be called. Personally I think this is a stupid thing to do at this age and you should be pushing for professional support- but if it can't be avoided it's not your place to challenge it.

donquixotedelamancha · 04/10/2018 21:36

I think it's worth reminding everyone what Datun suggests: think of the lurkers.

Dumbass comments of this kind of thread end up misrepresented on twitter.

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 21:45

May 2018 Guardian article outlines differences in approach:

'Schools pulled into row over helping transgender children
As more teens come out as trans, experts clash over how schools should help'
(extract)
'Profound disagreement has arisen about what schools should do. Should they, in the words of a widely used toolkit from the Allsorts Youth Project in Brighton, “make visible and celebrate trans people”? Or take the “watchful waiting” approach advocated by the Transgender Trend pack, which warns schools to be “aware of the risk of ‘social contagion’ from celebrity trans internet vloggers who glamorise medical transition”?

Stephanie Davies-Arai, a parenting adviser, launched the Transgender Trend resource pack in February half-term, thinking it would barely get noticed. Instead, she says: “It just blew up”. The LGBT lobby group Stonewall accused Transgender Trend, the organisation Davies-Arai set up two-and-a-half years ago, of spreading “damaging myths, panic and confusion”, and advised local authorities not to use the pack. On Twitter, people piled in, with one describing the pack (which had been checked by lawyers) as a “modern edition of Mein Kampf”.

Davies-Arai says she took an interest in the subject because as a child she had felt herself to be a boy, and she didn’t think it was a good idea to label children like her as transgender because she believes that in some cases, these feelings resolve naturally by the end of adolescence.

While the Allsorts advice states that “trans pupils or students should have access to the changing room that corresponds to their gender identity” and that in PE lessons, students “should be enabled to participate in the activity which corresponds to their gender identity if this is what they request”, Davies-Arai argues that shared changing rooms present difficulties for some girls. Few teenage girls will be willing to admit that they feel uncomfortable sharing a changing room with a biologically male student, she says.

She points out that the technical guidance on the Equality Act for schools suggests offering students “private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space” – the approach taken at Miles’s school.

Susie Green, CEO of the charity Mermaids, disagrees, saying the debate about single-sex toilets seems “engineered to whip up fear” and is equivalent to “arguing people of colour shouldn’t be allowed to use the same toilets as white people in case they make them dirty”. (continues)
www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 21:49

Dr Polly Carmichael (Lead NHS GIDS) lecture:

soundcloud.com/user-664361280/dr-polly-carmichael-developments-and-dilemmas

James Kirkup on the 'trans lobby'
"Dr Carmichael in her lecture said some things that seem relevant here:

“Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids. Mermaids is a charity that describes itself as “a support group for children and young people with gender dysphoria and their families”. Its CEO, Susie Green describes herself as “parent to a daughter who was born male.” Mermaids is a relatively small charity (it had income of £127,000 in the year to March 2017) with a big reach. It has prominent backers and its advice and recommendations have been absorbed and adopted by many public bodies."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

OunceOfFlounce · 04/10/2018 21:53

Perhaps make the child protection officer aware of the transgender trend pack too? I'm guessing you've let them know about the disclosure already, but might be worth making sure they're aware of gc views.

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 21:55

July 2018 This thread had a lot of contributions from teachers:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301871-What-do-educators-make-of-what-is-happening-in-our-schools

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 21:57

Interview with Stephanie Davies Arai, founder Transgender Trend:

BlackeyedSusan · 04/10/2018 21:58

You could use the phrase some people believe that.,..

As a school we have decided that...

X would like to be called....

It would also be a reminder that In Future you need to do lots of explicit explanations that people can enjoy dressing in different ways or have different likes and interests and these do not have to fit girls things or boys things.

Tis a tricky line to walk following school policy and managing your beliefs.

SamanthaHamer · 04/10/2018 22:18

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SamanthaHamer · 04/10/2018 22:22

A lovely article on Prince William kind words about Mermaids Gender, they are very much a registered Charity & have been doing amazing work for many years.
www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/10/11/prince-harry-calls-transgender-childrens-charity-mermaids-amazing-at-buckingham-palace-event/

Molokonono · 04/10/2018 22:23

Aren't mermaids banned from contact from at least one child, and advocate same day drugs that are against NHS guidelines?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mermaids-uk-charity-ban-as-boy-forced-to-live-as-girl-dvx3j99cn

Molokonono · 04/10/2018 22:24

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OldCrone · 04/10/2018 22:28

SamanthaHamer

TransgenderTrend do not recommend conversion therapy. I have read their guidance, and it does not say that. Please link and quote what you are referring to.

There is no scaremongering - again - please link and quote what you are referring to.

They do not encourage staff to break equality laws. Link and quote, please.

I don't expect you to reply to this, because you know you have misrepresented what TransgenderTrend say.

DeRigueurMortis · 04/10/2018 22:30

Mermaids are essentially a lobby group and have presented incorrect statistics and facts repeatedly (specifically wrt suicide rates and side effects/implications of puberty blockers).

They are not a good resource to consult.

Contact Transgender trend and download their resource pack.

WokerThanWoke · 04/10/2018 22:31

It's worth remembering that the National Autistic Society have withdrawn Mermaids from their website while they consult. More here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384565-Good-news-from-the-National-Autistic-Society-regarding-Mermaids-Please-help?pg=1&order=

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