Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

PM radio four - Stonewall petition

136 replies

FreezerBird · 04/10/2018 17:05

At the top of this evening's PM programme they've trailed 'live debate' about the Stonewall petition.

Does anyone know who's on?

OP posts:
LizzieSiddal · 04/10/2018 19:47

No, the GRA said transwomen WITH A GRC are women, Ruth.

This is such an important fact, and one which the TAs deliberately leave out.

Turph · 04/10/2018 19:49

I tried about three times to convey how much visceral hatred I have for Ruth Hunt without sounding like I’d like to crush her but I’ve failed, so I’d better leave it at that. This dyke is very angry.
So is this one. Well put.

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 04/10/2018 20:08

As I've said before; she fascinates me. Lesbian, girls school, all women's college. Yet no fellow-feeling for women.

homoseXXualmum · 04/10/2018 20:12

How can one listen to it?

Johnny is the perfect person to challenge Stonewall for people to open their eyes. And I am very positive Posie made this possible after her appearances.

FreezerBird · 04/10/2018 20:18

Thanks Jonny.

I don't know if your preference is Brew Wine Gin Cake or Flowers but whatever it is, have one on me.

OP posts:
NotNachoing · 04/10/2018 20:20

Waiting to see if it's raised in Any Questions tomorrow..or, rather, if a raised question gets aired.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/10/2018 20:27

As I've said before; she fascinates me. Lesbian, girls school, all women's college. Yet no fellow-feeling for women.

Maybe her problem is she doesn't have much understanding of men. Heterosexual men, the sort who predate women.

Manderleyagain · 04/10/2018 20:29

The legal situation isn't as simple as either side would like.

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 04/10/2018 20:30

Errol

Yes. I think maybe that's it. I feel, somehow, she's been bullied

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 04/10/2018 20:32

But then - she lies. She is lying on that interview. All that guff about how little influence they have

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/10/2018 20:37

No, the GRA said transwomen WITH A GRC are women, Ruth.

And Ruth also forgot to mention the sex based exemptions...

In a way I wish Best had made more of the way Stonewalls policies are basically homophobic. Sadly no-one gives a shit about the rights of women and girls, but if it can be made clear that Stonewall is actually undermining gay and lesbian people (of the same-sex attraction variety) then it may have more of an impact.

ChiaraRimini · 04/10/2018 20:40

Occam's razor would suggest careerism. She has decided to thrown women in general and lesbians in particular under the bus to promote her own career. It's a gamble that I don't think is going to pay off.

TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · 04/10/2018 20:49

Why should a man be more credible. It fucking sucks, but it's true

In this particular situation (challenging Stonewall) only a man will do, because, a woman would have Hunt saying "But I'm a woman! But I'm a lesbian!" and the discussion would have got nowhere. Best is I think very much aware that him being heard instead of women is very much an issue but for this specific radio segment it really was necessary.

homoseXXualmum · 04/10/2018 20:49

Just for the record: www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/apr/20/stonewalls-ruth-hunt-tells-owen-jones-my-heart-breaks-for-trans-communities-video-interview

0.58 Ruth Hunt says (I had heard she had openly said this and she clearly says it in this video), I quote her - "It really reminds me of the times when I've been told I'm not a lesbian you know; you're not a lesbian because you've not done anything lesbian yet."

TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · 04/10/2018 20:51

Only a gay man, I should have saiid.

homoseXXualmum · 04/10/2018 20:53

Forgot to mention she's 38 yo when in her own words she says "It really reminds me of the times when I've been told I'm not a lesbian you know; you're not a lesbian because you've not done anything lesbian yet." and this is why she resonates with the TRAs according to herself

Judder · 04/10/2018 20:56

Ruth Hunt mentioned some meeting going on in Parliament next week on this issue. Does anyone know what she's referring to? Maybe we should turn up and demonstrate.

TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · 04/10/2018 21:09

I second whoeever it was earlier in the thread that said to email [email protected] to express support for Quinn and for covering this; I shoehorned "and it's shameful that Women's Hour won't into mine (!)

RedToothBrush · 04/10/2018 21:11

I did a compulsory gender and feminism studies module at uni as part of my media degree. 20 years ago. We were asked whether we would ever use our sex to advance our career. The context being in any way including sleeping with someone. It was a particularly prestigious degree with the department being proud of its record on graduates being successful and going on to have good careers despite it being such a competitive field. Many of those on the course had well connected family members.

My group had 20 in it. Only one man. Would you like to guess how many said they would use their sex to get a competitive edge?

I learnt a lot that day. And not in a good way. It goes a lot against the #metoo narrative as well which makes me feel uncomfortable about telling the anecdote.

Yet it's what a bunch of 18 year old media wannabes were saying - perhaps very naively - and perhaps boastfully as a power thing, not realising what power they were giving up saying that. Certainly the sense was that if you wanted to be competitive as a woman, you had to be determined to do 'whatever it took'.

I do wonder what happened to them all and where they now work and how many did make it.

When I think of women in power now, I have moments when I consider what they compromised or gave up - which men didn't - to get to where they were. That's not to take away from their ability and talent. Indeed they more often than not are superior to their males peers. They had to do something more to prove themselves though. It wasn't good enough to be good, you had to be 'better'. That competitive edge...

It's a hard one to say, as it goes against what I'd like to believe. It pains me to acknowledge something which sounds like it's straight out the MRA handbook. And yet... I was there. I can not deny the reality of my experience. It put me off the idea of feminism as a concept for a very long time. "Hey Girl Power!"

It didn't sit right and well with me. I never fully reconciled with what they said and what I felt. Incredibly disappointed and as if I never would have a change to exceed just by being me. At the time I was having a bit of a crisis about being a woman full stop. I hated it. I starved myself. I was hugely depressed. All my interests were 'male' interests. And I didn't like the way I looked. Yet I had 'perfect' hourglass figure I deeply resented. I had a real lack of confidence.

I tried for a long time to do whatever to fit in with others. I over compensated at times. Threw my heart and soul into friendships and got burned when it didn't get appreciated.

I don't really know where I'm going with this post. It made more sense when I started it.

I guess my point is what route did Ruth take? Did she feel the same conflicts and pressures I did? Did she feel she had to over compensate in certain areas? Did she have to prove herself more than other? Did she have to 'sell out' or compromise herself? Maybe none of these. But I still wonder...

She is a woman, a lesbian at that, who works in a high profile media facing role in a male dominated arena.

I shouldn't be even pondering this, 20 years after that tutorial session. If we had equality with men it would even be a thought in my head to have. Its not about those 18 year old kids at uni. Nor is it even about Ruth's spinal rupture. It's about the reality of being female and not ever being able to escape your sexual availability and how it's currency in the workplace.

It's inescapable regardless of how good, capable and deserving you are. And that hasn't changed in 20 years.

You just have to switch on a reality TV show to know that. Any. Without exception.

ShackUp · 04/10/2018 21:16

Julie Bindel has just said on Twitter that Ruth H wanted to take her for coffee to discuss 'the trans issue' before her interview for CEO of Stonewall. I'm desperate to hear the rest of the anecdote!

mobile.twitter.com/bindelj/status/1047899829773504513

ShackUp · 04/10/2018 21:19

Ah, she basically implied that the plan was to let 'trans' form a breakaway group.

Ekphrasis · 04/10/2018 21:19

Missed all of this! was merrily on radio 6 will listen tomorrow. Sounds great!

Women's hour where are you....

CriticalCondition · 04/10/2018 21:20

I second whoever it was earlier in the thread that said to email [email protected] to express support for Quinn and for covering this; I shoehorned "and it's shameful that Women's Hour won't into mine (!)

Me too! And cross copied to WH.

BoreOfWhabylon · 04/10/2018 21:48

Ah, the breakaway group. That would be the small group, including Bradley, Challenor etc, all interconnected, who have devised policy and rolled it out unchallenged because it has the imprimatur of Stonewall.

While the rest of Stonewall has got on with the real business of raising money.

Sarahconnor1 · 05/10/2018 08:38

Threat made to jonny best. FFS.
They say people aren't being silenced.

PM radio four - Stonewall petition