Article in today’s Guardian about toilets and trans users.

[SausageOnAFork]

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/03/public-bathrooms-are-gender-identity-battlefields-what-if-we-just-do-it-right?__twitter_impression=true

I post without comment.

I remember when the Guardian was a quality newspaper. Yes I'm that old.

Why why why why why is everyone unable to understand that the majority of us that are GC do not believe that trans people are a threat.

Because that doesn’t suit their narrative.
We are worried about men, old fashioned, unpleasant men. The kind of men who will spend years in a relationship with a woman to access her children. The kind of man who will spend years pretending to be a ‘nice guy’ to get close to women.
Now all they potentially have to do is stick on a frock.

And yes, so having a sign for women’s toilets showing a person in a dress is upsetting to the gender non binary yet someone can be in trousers, short hair etc and be a woman but a man sticks on a dress and heels and he’s a woman.

NAYMSPALT

What does this mean? Can't find it on Google.

And NAMALT?

He could always bring cake in himself. But no, its a "ciswoman's" job to make the cakes, I forgot, same as its our job to clean the lav and look after the elderly.
Knob.
I actually don't think men should get any say whatsoever about who goes into our toilets. Its not their business.

I actually don't think men should get any say whatsoever about who goes into our toilets. Its not their business.

Completely agree with this!

I'm picturing the party that elicited the wounded tweet. Gusty laughter that only really happens when women are alone together. The author really has it in for women having their own stuff, eh?

Interesting that the highly rated comments are all critical of mixed sex toilets. And if that's on the Guardian website, you can imagine what it would be like on the Mail's comments.

At times I feel very despairing at the massive resources that the anti women groups like Stonewall, Mermaids, Gires etc can access in order to push their personal fetishes / quirks. And then I go and read what the general public say when allowed to speak - and they understand the threats and are consistently appalled. I'm not sure whether it is enough to stop this juggernaut - but when the shit hits the fan, as it will - the list of names who it will be possible to sue will be easy to access and their culpability writ right across twitter.

As Margaret Atwood (nearly) said:

“Women are afraid that men will kill them. Men are afraid that women will not share their cake with them. ”

How do you make gym toilets (situated in changing rooms) unisex/gender neutral without allowing anyone into a room where women are naked/undressed?

cabbage
NAMALT = Not all men are like that
NAYMSPALT = Not all young male socialised people are like that*

I’m trying to stay on the right side of talk guidelines while not calling everyone who wants to self ID as a woman, a woman.

Thanks ChattyLion.

Been reading this thread with interest. I certainly think more people should know about this issue. Is there a petition somewhere I can sign? I'm not happy with women/girls not having their own private safe space.

Been trying to think of a simple solution that could suit all but I don't think there is one.

In terms of public/work loos, the closest I can think of is to have a series of self-contained units only - with a loo and a sink in each, like disabled toilets are, which include sanibins and perhaps baby-changing facilities too - that way anyone can use them.

However, in a way women still lose out as there wouldn't be an open space to chat. Also the queues would be longer for everyone, as there wouldn't be a space for women to change clothes/brush teeth/apply makeup/manage children without using up a whole cubicle. Apparently we take too long as it is.

So then i guess a solution to that would be a room just for women to go and do those things. But that would be transphobic of course, because it would be just for women!

I'm also pretty sure men wouldn't be too happy with that as they are used to the speed of urinals. So you could then have another unit containing just urinals (and sinks!), for men to pee, if that's all they want to do. Dads also might want a room to manage kids too as it wouldn't be fair to only give this to women. Cubicles certainly won't be big enough if you have more than one kid and they need to change clothes etc. Plus men take up more space.

So let's see:
A series of self contained units that are gender neutral
Disabled units - also gender neutral
Separate urinals area for men only
Separate room for women only, to do womeny things in
Separate room for Dads and their kids, if needed

Simples!