Article in today’s Guardian about toilets and trans users.

[SausageOnAFork]

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/03/public-bathrooms-are-gender-identity-battlefields-what-if-we-just-do-it-right?__twitter_impression=true

I post without comment.

I'd love to see my boss' reaction if he was told he needed to provide gender neutral toilets.

He already finds it very annoying that his female employees keep having babies and only reluctantly employs mothers because 'we're more reliable and good at our work'.

"Transmisogyny is when only the ciswomen are doing one of those women only ‘cake things’ in the work kitchen and you weren’t invited, and then you walk in for a glass of water as you do, and at best one person says hello."

Sounds like those women have got the measure of you, love.

So transmisogyny would be some (I'm betting) white middle class bloke being oppressed by females because of his feminine gender presentation (that's the trans feminine bit)?

Fuck the fuck off to the far side of fuck. Absolute fud.

"Transmisogyny is when only the ciswomen are doing one of those women only ‘cake things’ in the work kitchen and you weren’t invited, and then you walk in for a glass of water as you do, and at best one person says hello."

Or maybe it’s an office-friendship group that happens to be female, and for some inexplicable reason, you’re not in it. Thought of that crossed your mind?

I’ve posted this before. I wish people would stop confusing sex with gender.

And they've just closed the comments. That was quick!

It looks as if the comments were generally pro single sex toilets!

If I tried to have a women-only "cake thing" I'd be trampled by the stampede of blokes getting in there first.

But only because they know it's a Mad Max style deathmatch to get any cake before it's all gone. Baked goods take no prisoners.

Perhaps anatomically correct signs are required, instead of a silhouette of someone with or without a dress (or one trouser leg and half a dress )

Is "visibly trans feminine" code for "doesn't pass"? Or is this a new thing we have to educate ourselves about?

IT IS NOT ABOUT THE FUCKING TOILETS!!!!

Every time its reduced to being about the toilets we don't talk about the totalitarianism of language and the suppression of the ability to express our own reality of experience.

yes, what the fuck is a 'women only cake thing'?

I mean it sounds great. i love cake, I love the company of other women, what's not to love?

I'm just not sure it's a thing

unless you lot have all been having women only cake things and not inviting me all these years?

yes, what the fuck is a 'women only cake thing'?

I’m going to a ‘women only cake thing* we’re going to be filling in the GRA consultation together.

If you’d like to organise your own see:

fairplayforwomen.com/

Or maybe it’s an office-friendship group that happens to be female, and for some inexplicable reason, you’re not in it. Thought of that crossed your mind?

'Course it hasn't hipster because that would involve self reflection, considering other people (ie actual women) and their feelings and preferences when it is so obviously all about "muh feelz" and "muh oppression" - fucking witches not immediately centering this brave and stunning trans feminine paragon.

I am fucking so over these men and their actual misogyny and narcissism.

Comments have already closed. Didn't go their way.

I can't believe they didn't allow my last comment (way before closing) which said:

If you cut through the gender smoke and mirrors, you are left with a story as old as humanity: humans with penises working to prevent humans with vaginas from defining and asserting their own boundaries.

Probably the problem was that the author of the article with the pronouns she/her belongs to the former of the two categories I mentioned.

What is a women only cake thing? All the workplaces I've been in stick any treats and baked goods on a plate and let anyone help themselves.

Is this just a way of insinuating that vagina people are all fat, greedy, cake hoarders?

"Or maybe it’s an office-friendship group that happens to be female, and for some inexplicable reason, you’re not in it. Thought of that crossed your mind?"

This!

I also have no idea what a "woman only cake thing" is.
Women going mad for cake is a STEREOTYPE albeit one that lots of women play up to.
NEWFLASH not all women are mad for cake, some men really like cake!!!
SOME of the women might be chatting and not bothering with the cake WOAAAHHHHHHH!!!! Mind >> Blown!!!

So this person who eschews gendered views takes a highly sexist view of the women in their office, what a surprise.

The only way these people can exist is by pretending that all other people are 2D sexist stereotypes and they are SO DIFFERENT and NOBODY UNDERSTANDS.

They all sound about 12. Seriously.

1. Most people are "non binary" or "agender" or "gender nonconforming". Most people in the WORLD.
2. "Women only cake thing" sounds like what many of these things are > a signpost to get away from men for a bit. Not really much to do with cake. The cake is an excuse. To have a women only thing. Cunty women that is. This is about SEX not GENDER.
3. Stop being so silly

I note that the author's Australian. They do seem to drink the woke kool-aid by the gallon down there.

(Also, the problem with dividing toilets into urinals and cubicles is that men can't go for a dump in the urinal, adding to the Barbican woes raised earlier in the thread).

The most upvoted comment under the article is one complaining about the lack of public toilets, but the second-most upvoted says this: (I've not quoted the entire comment)

A more useful distinction when it comes to toilets is between biological men and biological women. Men like to wee standing up, so urinals are useful. Men don't usually want to be observed weeing by women (and neither do women want to see men weeing) so that's one good reason for segregating by the sexes.

Another good reason for sex segregation is that biological women menstruate, and like to have some privacy for, for example, washing blood-stained hands or rinsing a moon-cup. This is particularly true for young girls, who can start menstruating as young as nine or 10. It's cruel to force them to deal with that in toilets also used by men.

...

Toilets segregated by biological sex have served us well for a long time, the main problem being that there aren't usually enough cubicles in the women's toilets. If you address this, and you have a few nice large cubicles for people with disabilities, then there isn't much more you need to do. You certainly don't need to introduce "gender" into it, cisnormative or otherwise. Gender isn't important when it comes to toilets; biological sex is.

Which seems sensible to me.

Yesterday the guardian had a bloke reading feminist books on the cover of the g2. Today this. Arg.

And they've just closed the comments. That was quick!

The Guardian: manufacturing consent in real time.

I've also never been to a 'woman only cake thing'

Cakes are non-binary at my work

As an aside but related to the comments issue does anyone know what the deal is with Spiked (the Brendan O' Neil site) currently? They seem to have dropped the prominent free speech mantle in a site redesign and have done away with the old comment system replacing it with Facebook comments.

Seems like a really odd move. All the articles used to have 100s of comments now they barely have 10. Admittedly some of the old comments I thought were dross but they were in keeping with who their base readership probably is. Considering all the issues around Facebook and censorship/data misuse etc.. it's a surprising choice.

If you want unisex toilets so badly then just make the mens unisex and leave the women alone.

"Or maybe it’s an office-friendship group that happens to be female, and for some inexplicable reason, you’re not in it. Thought of that crossed your mind?"

Sometimes, people don't like you, not because you're trans but because you're an utter pain in the arse who sucks all the oxygen from every room you're in?!

Yesterday the guardian had a bloke reading feminist books on the cover of the g2. Today this. Arg.

The toilets article was on the Australian part of the site, so different editors, and possibly different editorial decisions. It might also explain why comments are already closed - it's 11pm there so maybe they didn't have enough people to moderate.

The article by the bloke was quite good, I thought - anyone else read it?

"The public restroom is not only a place to empty one’s bladder or bowel, change a tampon or clothes, wash hands or reapply lippy; it’s an arbiter of gender, with its mostly cisnormative inhabitants to police it."

Wha..? utter bollocks